AIBU to be furious at DH over hidden debt?

[Worrywart2020]

I’ve NC for this as am fairly confident DH’s family prowl MN and I don’t want to add fuel to the family gossip flames

My DH and I have been talking at some length about moving house, We have decided we would like to do so before it would alter DC’s schooling and don’t want to cause more upheaval by moving once settled

So we’ve been doing the usual, scouting Rightmove and having a look around desired areas - We’ve even been to look at a few houses (drive by areas not internal viewing due to Covid) and have found a house we really love (but would be at our top top stretching ourselves budget unless we could somehow persuade them to take 10K less which is obviously unlikely)

However today we have hit a full brick wall, Discussing mortgages with DH and I decided to use a mortgage calculator to see realistically if/what we could borrow and go from there - Turns out DH has CONSIDERABLY more debt than I had realised, I knew he had previously gotten a loan to consolidate credit card debt etc but as we share the mortgage/childcare fees from a joint account (paid in to by separate accounts) I had no idea of the full scope

Turns out DH is nearly 50K in debt!
I have now point blank turned down the idea of moving because realistically we couldn’t afford anything more than we pay now as DH earns significantly more than me (although we both work FT) and his credit score is ultimately crippled and he is now moping around saying he feels awful and didn’t know how to tell me etc

I feel so so angry and honestly heartbroken, I don’t know why he has hidden this from me for so long

He doesn’t seem to realise the massive implications this has on both of us and has said that he felt unable to tell me because “he should be able to provide for his family” but that he’s been drowning in debt taking out loan and loan for years

I know it would be unreasonable of me to really lose my temper with him but right now I am so so angry with him so I’ve come upstairs under the guise of tidying to just get away from him

I don’t know what to do, I haven’t a clue where to start - Our house is in no danger, we have never defaulted on a mortgage payment (I have checked) and as far as the bank are concerned are model customers, I could pick up the slack there if it did become an issue but there is no possibility of me being able to pay off all of his bills

AIBU to be utterly furious? Or really should I just accept the situation for the next few years at least (and know we will have to significantly tighten our belts to weather this storm) without protest?

My DH (although clearly useless with money) is genuinely a lovely guy, a good father and we have a very happy marriage - but right now I could murder him, I feel too that I’m more angry with the situation because we had been actively looking online at properties and (I thought) planning our future together- all the while he’s been hiding this massive issue rendering the whole thing IMPOSSIBLE!

(I feel the need to point out too that there is no seedy undergoing here, the debt has been accrued by seemingly living far beyond his means for years but without showing this to me, neither of us have had pay rises in the last 6 years and the outgoings have gradually taken over the incoming)

Sorry everyone I haven’t disappeared in just feeling really overwhelmed (still furious) and trying to deal with DC

I will try and catch up on everything later but for now I’ll answer the two main questions that seem to be coming up

We’ve been in this house nearly 7 years so it’s been building over the last 6ish years
The majority of it seems to be interest etc

Also I am definitely holding myself accountable too for not being more straight on family finances and for not questioning the payment of things on his behalf

I have never suggested I thought we had endless money (of course I know we don’t) but I accept and take countability that I have been very stupid

@Worrywart2020 ..
I'd go through all the finances just to be sure..No way do you deserve this...
Interest rates can be savage, if it is credit card debt..But still, try to get to the bottom of it, just in case it is something more concerning. {hopefully it won't be}

This happened to me. We were applying for a mortgage and had to give details of debts. My husband claimed to have nothing and then a massive loan came up in the credit search that he had never told me about. The silly thing was he hadn’t needed to borrow the money really and pay all that interest so I suspect he didn’t tell me as I would have said to wait and save up rather than borrow it. I was fuming too so know how you feel.

If you want to stay with him and ensure your financial security into old age, the only option is a legal divorce and financial separation. Then you stay together romantically or don't - but not legally.

Whether it's gambling, drugs, drink, or women, he's spent £50k he doesn't have on something and you're on the hook for half. If you don't legally cleave from this person, you will never retire and quite possibly lose your home and face bankruptcy at some point.

At least without legal tie, the next time he does this you will have the choice to drop the rope and walk away, including financially.

I think he needs to take responsibility for this. I would be asking him 2 things.

1. To come up with a detailed account of how this occurred. Eg overspent in 2018 mainly on holiday to X, meals out etc. Gains debt of y which was then consolidated to give total debt of z etc.

2. To come up with a plan for dealing with it that he can then discuss with you.

If you jump on too soon to help sort it, he may not take full responsibility.

OP. Please make DH take on a load of the work that is going to be involved in sorting this out. Please dont let him sit back and have you work for hours establishing the situation and a solution. He needs to really feel the pain involved in straightening out his problem. Clearly you need to have full oversight, but he needs to own his problem and see the full extent of the work it is going to take to fix it.

Maybe this will help him to think twice before frittering money in the future

@BarbaraofSeville
*that's how people sleepwalk into debts that exceed their annual salary with nothing to show for it. They've spent tens of thousands of pounds on interest.

Not second families, gambling habits, sports cars or anything else that some posters are assuming that the DH has been indulging himself with. Interest. Making banks rich.*

That is terrifying.
I remember when banks were anxiously trying to push loans onto people, especially homeowners.
''Mrs - How about a loan of £25,000 to spend TODAY on WHATEVER YOU WANT''...
I tore them up, and haven't had a credit card for many years through choice.
They seem like the Devil's Handmaiden in the wrong hands.
I do remember when I had one, the paltry repayments that could be made.

@Worrywart2020 how much does your DH earn? Like lots of others have said, there's more to this if he's spending all his salary and getting into that amount of debt as well. I got myself into around 8k of debt a good number of years ago because I was living beyond my means but I know what the money was spent on - a car and a couple of long haul holidays. 50k on a few weekends away and some stuff from Amazon really doesn't add up.

@Worrywart2020
Pop over to the Money board to find proper useful non judgemental support for your situation
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters

As well as Martin Lewis take a look at the Dave Ramsey debt method. It might work well for you. Good luck.

I think you need to sit down together and work as a team on this, please do not take it all on yourself. Whilst you may have enjoyed the things he was providing he is the one who has put you in this position by not being honest.
First of all he needs to hand over all of the credit cards and promise you this is it! You need to make it clear that you will help him but he has to promise NEVER to do this again.
He then needs to give you accurate up to date details of each of the debts. List each of them out, what is owed, if its a loan or credit card and what the interest is like on it. Loans tend to have an agreed repayment plan for a set number of months, credit cards you pay what you want and after an initial interest free period usually have horrible interest rates. Focus on paying back the credit card with the highest interest rate.
I have been in this position in the past when I ran up a load of debt all be it not to the same extend as your DH- about 8k but I was on a very low income.
I allowed the loans to bubble away in the back ground and focused my attention on paying back the credit cards.
Your DH also needs to be clear about what he is earning each month and you need to figure out a reasonable budget. To start with I was very strict and had no luxuries.....this made me miserable. So I allowed myself a small amount each month for treats.....nothing extravagant but maybe a hair cut one month or coffee and cake out another month. I always had the treat at the end of the month to look forward to and only allowed myself to have it if I had been good.

This probably seems really daunting for you to tackle, so take your time. When you start ticking debts off as they are paid off it feels AMAZING and spurs you on to pay the next. As I paid one off I would increase payment on another. I am now very close to being debt free. I haven't used my overdraft in over a year. I do on the odd occasion have to use my credit card if the car needs repairs but I can trust myself to pay it back off again.

Good luck op.

My friend divorced her husband for this ..and it was a lot less money than this as well
Not the actions of a nice guy at all.

Unfortunately my marriage ended largely because of this. Debt after debt after debt. Bill's and credit cards statements hidden away in bags and drawers. He couldn't be honest in 15 years. I paid it all off and its put a stop to my early retirement. When he left, he said I was controlling over his spending, too right I was, he spent three months with no debt then spiralled into 40k in a year.
I was relieved after the divorce. I just could not live like that all the time.

You definantly need to take control.

Write down all your outgoings and bills. Factor in one off payments such as haircuts, mot, school uniform etc.

budget planner

Write down a list of all the debts. Look on money saving expert.com, and find details of cheap long loans or balance transfer credit cards. Move what you can over to the cheapest loan rate (and then cut up the credit card if it’s a balance transfer).

Set up a direct debit to a second account to pay for Christmas, birthdays, clothes etc.

50k is a lot of debt, so it will be a long game.

when I say I allowed the loans to bubble away in the background I mean I was paying the payment every month but they didn't really need my attention as there was an agreed term of monthly repayments.

£50k is a massive amount if he is on a fulltime wage I'd be amazed its just interest..... be angry you should be angry ...

why are you blaming yourself ?
that is really strange.... why would you check his finances if you have it split... its like women whos DH have had affairs blaming themselves...its not you that has paid for this stuff and stuck your head in the sand...

What is he doing about it ? what has he said.....why isnt he looking up financial couselling/debt support - its his issue until he owns it you will never be able to trust him again ....
I agree I wouldnt want to be in a pocket money relationship as I would like to be married to an adult not a child......

he needs to show he can become and adult and ask you for support in that maybe but not have you sort it all out for him.... he's not a child...

maybe give him some time to come up with his plan to sort it..... and then decide...

@Alongcameacat

What was the money spent on? You say living beyond ‘his’ means but you share expenses. Can anything be done about the debt? If he has an expensive car, can he sell it and buy a cheaper one? Do you have joint savings that would be better spent paying off debt in order for you to both move? A friend of mine was in a similar situation and she took control of the household finances to the extent of giving her DH ‘pocket money’. It wouldn’t be for me but it worked for them and they are no longer in debt. They have one credit card between them that she keeps possession of at all times.

I agree this isn’t just about him. He is to blame for his actions. But you both should have been looking at joint income and outgoings.

No pay rises for 6 years and you didn’t cut back was a joint mistake. There has been inflation for 6 years.

It's very hard to see how you could accrue 50k of debt on overspending on meals out etc. Has he unwisely taken out high interest loans to pay of card bills? Probably needs a forensic check over how it built up to that.

I don’t feel I could dictate pocket money etc

I would happily do this. I have always organised my own finances like this. Look at what you have coming in, divide it into what goes out each month (mortgage/ bills/ money each month to save for annual holiday/ save money each month to pay for opticians and dentists etc) and then a personal budget - money for me to spend as I will on myself. You need to sit down and budget like this. And you keep to the budget each month, and record everything you spend so you know you are keeping to it. If you don't know what you can spend on yourself each month in 'pocket money' you will overspend. Just like he has been to the tune of £50K. You need to be hard headed about this.

I am sure everyone has said this but you should speak to a charity that helps people manage debt. They are probably really busy now though. You can start by sitting down and doing a monthly budget like I said.

I would be absolutely fuming if I were you.

We had this (with a significantly larger amount). It was a combination of baby exhaustion and a number of things going wrong in DHs life (family members dying, job loss, that kind of thing). In between trying to keep himself motivated to keep going by ‘rewarding’ himself and trying to spend his way into feeling better DH got into a six figure debt. His family and friends encouraged the crazy spending (first seeing it as a sign he was successful and then expecting him to always pick up the tag because he was apparently so successful). I questioned it at first but he assured me it was fine, and given everything else I didn’t want to put any more pressure on him. When the it came out I was absolutely livid. It is now mostly cleared up a few years down the line but I found it very upsetting at the time and I’m upset about how horrible that period of my life was. That said we’re both very happy now and he’s better about his spending and much better at taking on board my advice and seeking help from me before things become a problem. If your marriage is otherwise good I don’t think something so minor can has a long term negative effect.

Worrywart2020 my husband owns an insolvency practice. This kind of debt isn’t unusual however there maybe many other factors you dont know about.

Your first step is to have full access to his credit score and history to really see all active debts. You really need to be pragmatic about this as you could be in line to be going bankrupt. Ask to see any and all statements regarding the debts.

I’d also ask to see his bank statement and see if he is being honest.

There are lots of ways to deal with this debt depending on income and expenditure.

It's a deception and a betrayal. Like any deception, the only good way out requires totally honesty - he needs to give you complete access to all his financial history (bank statements etc) so you can work out between you exactly where the money has gone and how he can change his spending habits in future. If he won't do this, he isn't ready to change (or is hiding something)

@lifeafter50 I went over my DHs accounts once and he’d spent £20k on food and coffee one year. It’s definitely possible. My cousin recently got an earful from his wife (at a family gathering) for spending £500 on lunch (just one lunch, apparently the wind was very good).

OP, you NEED to get angry with him. He needs to feel what he has done. Anger doesn't need to be abusive, it just needs to be emphatic.

My DH had no 'money sense' when we married 30 + years ago. Although we'd talked about finances beforehand I didn't realize it because I didn't actually see his finances. His was more bouncing checks and going into overdraft (which is a very different thing in the US than the UK) rather than running up credit card debt. But it still was unacceptable and damaging to our credit rating.

So, I took over the finances. We agreed that I would give him a certain amount of cash on payday and that was it, once it was gone it was gone. He didn't even have an ATM card and would have to ask me for a blank check. I managed all bills and paid all expenses. We went on this way for quite some time and he eventually learnt to budget and to be more practical in his spending and the 'weekly allowance' and etc stopped. We still have different money 'philosophies', but he does think first now and we discuss it before either of us makes a large purchase.

With the advent of online banking he actually took over paying all the bills as he was just better with the computer than I was. But we both keep an eye on the bank balances!

Your DH needs help in learning to manage money. But he has to learn to crawl before he learns to run. You need to take control until he proves himself reliable.