AIBU to be furious at DH over hidden debt?

[Worrywart2020]

I’ve NC for this as am fairly confident DH’s family prowl MN and I don’t want to add fuel to the family gossip flames

My DH and I have been talking at some length about moving house, We have decided we would like to do so before it would alter DC’s schooling and don’t want to cause more upheaval by moving once settled

So we’ve been doing the usual, scouting Rightmove and having a look around desired areas - We’ve even been to look at a few houses (drive by areas not internal viewing due to Covid) and have found a house we really love (but would be at our top top stretching ourselves budget unless we could somehow persuade them to take 10K less which is obviously unlikely)

However today we have hit a full brick wall, Discussing mortgages with DH and I decided to use a mortgage calculator to see realistically if/what we could borrow and go from there - Turns out DH has CONSIDERABLY more debt than I had realised, I knew he had previously gotten a loan to consolidate credit card debt etc but as we share the mortgage/childcare fees from a joint account (paid in to by separate accounts) I had no idea of the full scope

Turns out DH is nearly 50K in debt!
I have now point blank turned down the idea of moving because realistically we couldn’t afford anything more than we pay now as DH earns significantly more than me (although we both work FT) and his credit score is ultimately crippled and he is now moping around saying he feels awful and didn’t know how to tell me etc

I feel so so angry and honestly heartbroken, I don’t know why he has hidden this from me for so long

He doesn’t seem to realise the massive implications this has on both of us and has said that he felt unable to tell me because “he should be able to provide for his family” but that he’s been drowning in debt taking out loan and loan for years

I know it would be unreasonable of me to really lose my temper with him but right now I am so so angry with him so I’ve come upstairs under the guise of tidying to just get away from him

I don’t know what to do, I haven’t a clue where to start - Our house is in no danger, we have never defaulted on a mortgage payment (I have checked) and as far as the bank are concerned are model customers, I could pick up the slack there if it did become an issue but there is no possibility of me being able to pay off all of his bills

AIBU to be utterly furious? Or really should I just accept the situation for the next few years at least (and know we will have to significantly tighten our belts to weather this storm) without protest?

My DH (although clearly useless with money) is genuinely a lovely guy, a good father and we have a very happy marriage - but right now I could murder him, I feel too that I’m more angry with the situation because we had been actively looking online at properties and (I thought) planning our future together- all the while he’s been hiding this massive issue rendering the whole thing IMPOSSIBLE!

(I feel the need to point out too that there is no seedy undergoing here, the debt has been accrued by seemingly living far beyond his means for years but without showing this to me, neither of us have had pay rises in the last 6 years and the outgoings have gradually taken over the incoming)

A year and a half ago I could have written your exact post except that it was 38K of debt. We had even been looking at moving and I was so excited!

I was so hurt and angry to begin with. To be honest I wouldn't have stayed if DH hadn't immediately made all his accounts and credit score accessible to me and if he hadn't agreed to go on a course run by Christians against Poverty designed to help him deal with his spending issues.

He did however do all those things and the debt is steadily coming down. I have come to terms with the fact that we won't move for a few more years.

DH is aware that he doesn't get another chance and he is working so hard to make extra money.

If that debt has amassed over a period of years, a large proportion of it will be interest. It’s not difficult to see how it’s accumulated. As someone who’s married to someone who spends without thinking, you have my sympathy, OP. At least you know now and can get a handle on dealing with it.

I think you need to think about whether you are angry with him or the situation. You're obviously disappointed at the loss of the prospect of the future house/move/change of area, but if he's a model husband and father (albeit a bit shit with money), then you can't really punish him for mistakes he knows he made just trying to keep up appearances.

You need to make sure that he's not continuing to overspend though. Really knuckle down on finances, check every penny coming in and out - maybe set a day per week to go through what you've each spent and what on (with bank statements etc, so he can't 'forget').

It is, as a pp said, only too easily done, overspending and trying to believe that it will all be all right. Manageable debts become unmanageable very very fast.

www.moneysavingexpert.com/loans/debt-help-plan/

Martin Lewis suggests deciding whether you are in a debt crisis (where you simply can't repay priority debts or are struggling with mortgage or bills) or have a debt problem (where you have lots of debts but are essentially managing them). The second is better than the first!

Have a read, get educated, but also level with your husband- this is marriage shaking stuff as he lied and he isn't being upfront now. He needs to get out every bloody piece of paper or online printout of every single debt, you can also use a credit scoring agency list (you can sometimes get a free month, or just pay for a month or two) to see what debts he has and what the interest rate is on each one and whether he's ever defaulted.

I separated my finances from my husband so we had no joint loans/credit cards, we had no joint mortgage at the time, but it keeps your credit rating good and you can work on his.

Good luck, money problems can absolutely eat away at a marriage because of the stress that goes along with them, hope it works out.

I’d be more than furious. It would honestly make me question my marriage.

You need to go through it step by step today - are you overspending each month? Or were there any one off purchases that caused the debt? And I’d then be taking over complete control of finances.

As well as interest, if he's been a loan/credit card user for a good few years, there could have been PPI on there too, as it was just piled on for a long time, to the disadvantage of those who didn't take enough notice of their finances. Sadly, the deadline for reclaiming this has passed, because that could have yielded a good chunk towards the debt.

I couldn’t stay with someone who had deceived me so much.
I would want to be absolutely financially free from that person, to secure my situation for me and my children.

Jesus fuck.

I'll be blunt: unless he agreed to you taking over all finances from right this moment, with you in charge of HIS accounts, debt repayment etc. then I would not be able to stay in the marriage.

I can't believe you were talking about movign for all that time and him nodding and looking you in the eye and yes yes - until you found out.

That's marriage-ending stuff.

He needs to understand that.

And you also need to understand that if he so much as hesitates at the thought of you taking charge and doesn't accept that you have every right to - then you are with someone who you absolutely should not trust as a life partner.

@Worrywart2020 - I can actually see how a continuous over spending and debt consolidation can get this bad without there being a massive gambling/addiction problem.

I got into debt in my late 20's early 30's to the tune of about £30k. I didn't buy designer bags or have outlandish holidays or cars but obviously spent more than I earned and let it get very out of control. The more bad advice I took and the more consolidation loans I took to try and gain control of it the worse it got.

I met my husband and he paid it off for me (I have since paid him back with a lump sum from an inheritance). His only caveat was that I never get in to debt again and I haven't since. I was just really crap at money management. I now have 1 credit card for work expenses and to buy things online which is paid off every month (if I use it which is rarely now we are permanently at home) and I have a £50 overdraft just in case I go over by a few pounds.

I think this is manageable and I am sure you will get lots of advice but I wouldn't necessarily think it was gambling or addiction spending rather than just really crap with money (as am I).

I also discovered my husband had taken out loans without my knowledge and only found out when it came to re-mortgaging our home. It was no where near what your dh has accrued though - that would be serious divorce grounds for me I think.

Turns out my husband was pretty good at keeping things from me, including an affair so he is no longer my husband.

I think a lot of people these days struggle to live within their means and want everything NOW, hence getting into debt. Since we separated I have managed to clear the credit card we had (I made him pay half of it off and although it took him over 2 years, he did) and am in no debt (apart from my mortgage). I was always better with money than him anyway but my experiences in my marriage have made me very sure that I don't want to share money or a home with a man again.

I think as others have said,a ll you can do now if you want to stay with him is to get all the advice and debt help you can and live very frugally (compared to what you have been used to) until you clear the debt. Unfortunately this has an impact on your whole family.

It is a massive amount. But have you been living beyond your means. I don't necessarily mean in an extravagant way. But spending more than you earn over a long period can add up to an alarming amount. Of course he should not have kept this a secret. Is he gambling?

People sure he couldn't have spent this much since they married: I would bet his habit of consolidating and reconsolidating onto new cards and with new loans predates OP, and that is why it is 50k. probably if someone really took the time to look into the whole history of it, more than half is charges and interest rather than purchases and it has been going on since he obtained his first overdraft on his first bank account at 18.

Good luck OP. you can get out from under this, but like an alcoholic or a gambler, nothing you do will help permanently if he doesn't really accept that he has a problem that needs solving.

I really hope this is just him being an idiot and without 100% honesty and him coming up with a plan to sort this I would have to take some time on my own.

I’m another who would be questioning my marriage! I hate debt, if I don’t have the money I don’t buy buy it, and explained this to dh at the beginning of our relationship.

I can’t deal with having to owe people money that would make me ill!

He must be seriously overspending and living out with his wages to have that much debt!

Get him to get his experian / credit file so you can see all the loans / credit cards and whether he's defaulted. I also think its a HUGE amount of debt to accumulate just on every day expenses, even accounting for interest. I'd want to go through the actual spending. Something doesn't quite add up.

As others have said, I would struggle with the deceit and lack of honesty. I don't think it's necessarily grounds for divorce but I would think our relationship is forever changed by this - the trust / being open with each other / his integrity / planning our future together. I would be more than angry, and it would be a real challenge to get past this given that its going to take you years as a family to get through this.

Loans for what, tho? £50K over a few years is a big sum. Yes, you need to access statements ASAP.

You jointly pay the mortgage and childcare fees, you cover the family groceries and everything the children need. He pays council tax and utilities. He earns so much more than you you thought a considerably larger mortgage was a possibility with no expected Increase in either of your wages. Yet with that amount of disposable income he's built up 50k of debt just in the last few years since you bought your current house?

There's got to be more to this than family meals and unnecessary purchases on Amazon plus credit card interest. You're partially blaming yourself but sound switched on where the family finances are concerned and it seems reasonable from the info given you thought those spends were affordable.

He could be gambling online, spending on someone else?

Your house isn't secure if he loses his job. You need to see all credit accounts in his name, all statements. Be prepared for the possibility there's more he's lying about. If you hadn't been at the point of applying for mortgages he still wouldn't have told you about the 50k.

I would fucking furious. So many lies! And they are really big lies too. Lies which have a very big impact on the whole family.

I'm not sure I could forgive this. I don't know if I'd be able to trust him ever again.

Agree with above. You need to arm yourself with all of the information about his debts.

Seize control of all money coming into the household and sit with him and work out what's next.

You need to work our realistic figures and he needs to be in charge of his debt!

Don’t take over

Manage it together with him inside to agree repayments

Could you remortgage? That's the first thing I would try.

Secondly, you need to completely rearrange how to manage your household finances. All money paid into the joint account, and all household costs including clothes etc. for your DC, bills, food go from this account.

Into your own accounts go equal amounts of spending money, or give it to your husband as cash if he can't manage to control his spending using a debit card.

Cut up/hide credit cards, and live within your means as a family.

It's fixable, but it means working together as a couple and learning new money habits and structures.

When I was in my early 20s I went mad with overdraft/credit cards/catalogue accounts and managed to get into a £14k hole. I was in a hideous cycle of increasing minimum payments, which wiped out my salary and I'd then have to put household expenses on a credit card. it just spiralled so quickly and I really had nothing to show for it. I called StepChange and set up a debt repayment plan, which was the biggest relief of my life. It has been a really long road but my final payment will be April 2021 and I'll be debt free.

£50k is a huge amount and he shouldn't have lied but I also hid it from now-DH, who was furious with me, so I do get it. I'm not excusing it but I get it. That sick, panicky feeling will never leave me and it taught me a hard lesson. Aside from my car I have no finance at all and I now save for larger purchases.

He needs to call StepChange and get on top of this now or the interest and repayments will just continue to climb.

It’s not just spending 50k it’s spending 50k on top of his actual disposable income

Exactly. I just can't see how he could have spent that much ON TOP of what he earns, (when he already earns more than you), and it all simply be just on treats that you know about.

God I'd be murderous. You've been dismissing houses over 10k difference when there's 50k missing you didn't know about. He would be sleeping in the shed here for a while.

More practically, I think you need to take complete control, you need to account for ALL his spending over the past year or so to work out where this overspend is and check there are no hidden nasties from gambling sites, hotels you didn't go to etc and you need to remove his access to credit and joint funds completely. He has proved he can't handle it.

Don't waste energy on whether he is upset. This is his mess, but unfortunately you'll have to fix it.

Do you have your own independent savings OP? Could you transfer some money to a trusted family member? My concern in your situation would be that we are heading into deep recession and high redundancy and if one of you loses your job you will be jointly liable here.

In the meantime he needs to be taking immediate action - ending all direct debits to gym/sky sports/magazine or wine subscriptions, antyhing that is his expenditure. He needs to sell his hi-fi's or his bikes or whatever random crap he splurged on. And if possible, he should be looking into ways of increasing his income, although I appreciated now is not the time to be looking for a saturday job.

I do wish pp would stop telling you this debt can’t possibly be down to over spending, OP. Assuming he’s only been making minimum repayments every month, the interest will be piling up. This is an example of how it mounts up:

^For example, if your credit card debt stands at £5,000 with a 16% APR and your minimum repayment is either 3% of your balance or £10:

Paying the minimum means it would take over 16 years to pay off your debt, and you’ll end up paying £3,339, in interest^

www.moneysupermarket.com/credit-cards/what-is-a-credit-card-minimum-payment/