To ask if your alpha male partner contributes around the house?

[BlancheW]

I’m going through a divorce and one of the biggest reasons for my feelings eroding away is because I also work full time, look after young children, have my own demanding career, but my husband expects me to pick up 99% of the physical and mental load. He does his own washing, occasionally puts the bins out, does bathtime about once every 3-4 months and does bedtime stories about once a month. I do everything else. I have asked for help and he says no. Hence the breakdown of the relationship.

My problem is, I’m usually attracted to alpha male types... intelligent, charismatic, charming, can hold his own in any debate, leaders, etc. I’m now wondering if this can possibly coexist with helping out more at home? Are all alpha males happy to leave the housework and childcare to their partners or are some of them a bit more developed in that regard?!

If your partner is an alpha male, does he help out?

Sorry to pile on, OP, but I agree with the others that you might want to evaluate what about this toxic personality type you are attracted to. My husband is very successful and high earning, type-A at work and even in his hobbies, often works very long days and earns literally 5x what I do.

Despite this, I would never describe him as "alpha" because to me that connotes a certain type of male entitlement, selfishness, arrogance, and a desire to demean others. My husband does all dishes, laundry, and takes out the bins. I definitely do most of the chores and the emotional labour of household planning, but that is my choice since I don't care about or like my job as much or work nearly as long of hours as my husband so it feels fair to pull my weight differently.

@Mamia15

You're being a mug.

You need to do everything to protect the DC financially.

50:50 when you are raising his kids including paying for childcare etc is a very poor deal - kids especially teenagers are very expensive and you will regret it.

Get legal advice. You do not have to agree with everything solicitor says.

I suspect the reason why he's changed, has disengaged from family life is because he has someone else.

Yep. Honestly OP, he's either done a number on you or saw you coming. Plenty of them talk a good game about being feminists, when what they actually mean is they want you to keep working in your well paid career, and think that suffices. And you apparently have principles that mean you couldn't possibly take a share of the assets that reflects your greater contribution to childcare and domestic life, without even considering how much freeloading you're letting him do with that settlement? He landed on his feet there!

I don't know about him having someone else, but you're being a mug alright. Has having the children delayed your path to consultant, for example? Might it in the future? These are things that should be taken into consideration.

I wonder how much of this attitude is bound up with what some level of belief that this is simply to be expected if you partner with someone who has certain qualities? You have a particularly disadvantageous set of boundaries and beliefs there and I wonder if you had them when you met him or if he's helped create them.

OP,
Sorry to hear that you are going through this.

Those traits don't in themselves make a man to not do his share of house work and child care. However, they could (along with a whole lot of other factors like upbringing and life experiences) produce a level of entitlement.

I have no personal experience of a counter example, sadly!

But, looking around, I have seen quite a few who tick all those boxes AND do school runs and various other things..

You get the impression talking to them, that they are totally engaged with their domestic life, their partner and their children (be it school activities, extra-curricular, well-being, discipline). And talking to the mum, you get the impression on how supported she feels too!

They DO exist!

One example: Both professionals, mum works part-time (doctor) 1-2 days a week, dad in a leadership role, has his own hobbies which he actively pursues, but dad still is totally hands on, comes to pick up after play dates, does school run most days, is there for all birthday parties, organises work at home etc etc..
I don't know the details of their day to day family life of course.

its not really who-does-what, but the attitude towards all those things that need to be done for a household to run and for children to thrive in a happy and safe environment..

Its almost like how one defines success and fulfilment in their lives!

If they think doing their share of house work and child care is a favour then, its not going anywhere! That entitlement is what breaks it, in my opinion.

They DO exist ! But, need to differentiate between the ones who truly believe in those values and the ones who pretend to or will perhaps preach those values, but not practice them quite.

The other thing I find is also the assertiveness of the woman which seems to play a big role in how these things emerge. So, may be that has a role to play as well.

I've spent a good 5 minutes or so pondering what 'alpha male' actually means. I've come to the conclusion that it's probably a bit of an outdated sexist term, since when did you ever hear someone call a woman 'alpha female'

I think back in the days where a woman needed a breadwinner to keep her, an alpha male would be quite a catch, after all,she's the SAH wife and mother so we wouldn't expect alpha male to lift his finger doing housework, or worse, put his own children to bed.

Times have changed. I think what you've described as alpha is simply an emotionally intelligent, lazy, misogynistic arse who, has decided he doesn't really like you any more. He also sounds just like my ex husband. I, back in my 20s found the arrogant male attractive, but after 5 years of being spoken to like the dog, belittling my career, my business and every idea I ever had, whilst he used to sit and play on his games console all evening and had no idea how to use any kitchen appliance I kicked the lazy fucker out.

Then I raised my standards. It took a few years but I refused to settle. My now DH is a king amongst men. He is hardworking, caring, thoughtful, amazing cook, does 50% of the cleaning, and at least 50% of childcare responsibilities. This, is what I'd consider an alpha male. One who looks after his family, who supports my career and is bringing up our DD to believe she is equal to any man.

Raise your standards OP. This isn't the 1950s any more.

As PP have said absolutely need to re-evaluate who you’re attracted to. Arseholes are arseholes it doesn’t mean they are some kind of alpha male used to being in charge.

I grew up with a lot of real hard men in the family who didn’t take shit from anyone and all of them to a man would walk over glass for their wife and kids. A real manly man is secure enough in his own masculinity to do whatever needs to be done around the house. And the women were the ones in charge at home.

Life is much easier without the weight of unmet expectations bringing you down, I do everything at home but i wake up knowing i have to, rather than wondering and being bitter that theres someone there that could help but choses not to.

This struck a chord with me as I'm considering ending my relationship over this (and other things). Not going to derail the OP's thread for this, but just wanted to say thanks for this neat way of putting it.

I grew up with a lot of real hard men in the family who didn’t take shit from anyone and all of them to a man would walk over glass for their wife and kids.

Same.

I always think with people like him, that they’re just not very kind. Imagine seeing someone you care about being really tired, asking for help and then saying no! Who’d do that? It’s horrible. Even if he has fallen out of love, it’s still a mean thing to do to you. Glad you’re splitting up.

Alpha males... Jesus Christ

@BlancheW

Just because a person is "alpha male" doesn't mean he also needs to be a Neanderthal in behaviour.

Glad to see you are moving away from an uncaring partner in an unequal relationship.

I have one of these.
I do all washing, cleaning, decorating, garden, most childcare (he will do the odd bath time or make food), remember all important school show/letters to be signed/packed lunch for school trips etc, shopping, haircuts, uniforms, remember birthdays and buy gifts and cards.

You get the picture.

He cooks, and walks the dog (I also do at least half hour dog walk each day)

I've only recently encouraged him to clear up mess he creates whilst cooking.
Its exhausting.

My husband is deffo an alpha male has all the qualities you list. But he is a Pack Builder not leader he understands we are a team we both pull our weight what you describe is a immature beta male with ego issues

Someone I know is attracted to alpha male types (hate that as a phrase and a concept) and all of them ended up being abusive arseholes.

Alpha maleness is a toxic brew.

I've usually found that being (genuinely) intelligent as opposed to having taken full advantage of patriarchal bias and genuinely charismatic as opposed to being a smarmy arrogant git is in direct oppostion to being the 'alpha male type' - aka, a testosterone-clouded nightmare of selfishness, entitlement and sexism.

Nice, clever, emotionally healthy, switched-on people tend to be grown ups who clear up their own messes :)

There's a reason why the term 'alpha male' is very commonly immediately followed by the word 'bullshit'

I don't believe there is any such thing as an alpha male. What you are describing is a self-involved bully with a God complex.

Alpha-male is a descriptor used in fiction, where women are swept off their feet by a high-earning, commanding man, who sorts her life out for her and promises to care for her forever. An enticing prospect, but when the 'commanding' turns into telling you what to do and the 'caring for you forever' turns into not letting you work, not wanting you to talk to other men, making sure you fulfill the 'housewife and nanny' role...well.

I am very anti-alpha males. The term 'alph-hole' was invented for a reason.

@SeasonFinale

Your values will let you apply for UC but not seek an award that a court would deem to be fair and just in divorce proceedings where there are young children to take into account..

This ^^

I am a SAHM and my DH has a high paying, stressful job that he both hates and loves.

He does plenty around the house, I don’t have to ask. Obviously I do the majority as I’m at home to do it but we tag team bedtime if he’s home in time (one child each) and he cooks on weekends. I do generally take the brunt with the children when they are very young as he has a different relationship with them than me (eg I breastfeed, do all the comforting and the nights etc etc, but he is more fun and playful and will happily take them to the park on his own etc).

Your description of your DH is annoyed me so much, I'm really pleased you're divorcing him!

There have been threads on here where the woman's struggling with a FT job and homeschooling and all the housework... but of course her OH can't take any of it on at the moment because he works in healthcare and his job's too stressful at the moment. Which might be true... but isn't it odd how that never seems to apply when the sexes are reversed

Posters not understanding 'alpha male'. Look up hegemonic masculinity. I think you all know what the OP is getting at, but being willfully obtuse in order to make your point. Yawn!

There's a big difference between 'not understanding' and 'understanding full well and deliberately choosing not to use it'. I dislike the value system that goes along with using the term. I know its history, I know what it is disguising, I know what it is drawing upon. I reject those things.

Yes we understand alpha male perfectly well, we just happen to think it’s a load of big hairy bollocks.

I genuinely didn't understand what OP meant...she was describing my husband but I don't think of him as "alpha" and I don't think he does either, though tbf we don't use words like "alpha" and "beta" to describe people, partly because it is indeed bollocks as well as dehumanising. If I hear the term, I take it to mean something else and while it's not something I care for, it definitely doesn't include a man who gets defeated by a washing machine or the concept of clearing up his own home space.

At any rate, the problem seems to be more than her husband is an arsehole and doesn't think she's worth the effort than because he's an alpha or a gamma ray or whatever. I too am attracted to capable men who get stuff done. I think that's pretty standard in straight women.

Men do exist who will do their fair share AS WELL as being intelligent, charismatic, charming, who can hold their own in any debate, who are leaders, etc. this describes my DH v well... he is not an 'alpha male though, I can't think of anything worse.

Men can be confident, successful, popular, assertive AS WELL as being kind and altruistic, etc. minus the aggressive, demanding, domineering and conceited negative traits of an 'alpha' male. I know this as my DH is exactly as I have described.

And why is it that 'alpha' males always tell you about their 'alpha' status. Genuine self-esteem is considering yourself a person of value, not considering yourself as superior to others.

sheba yes that too- poor little alpha male defeated by the washing machine. Do you think you can work out what the types of food in the fridge are and possibly turn some into dinner? What’s that- ypu don’t know where the saucepans are? Do you need a cuddle at how big and overwhelming the kitchen witchen is?

I'm married to a chief exec who despite having a 'high flying' role, (and who is also intelligent, charismatic etc) does more housework than me, does the mental load around school diaries etc too. You married a misogynistic dick.... Your question might be better framed as why you had such crappy expectations about gender roles rather than why you are attracted to 'alpha males'.
There are a percentage of women I know who tell me I am 'very lucky' to have DH as he's 'so good' they also tend to be married to misogynistic dicks. I'm not 'lucky' there is no way on god's green earth I would have chosen to spend my life wth someone who saw kids/the domestic as my job. I would have kicked them into touch the moment I saw tendencies (which quite frankly seem very clearly obvious when you live with someone).

@BlancheW

He is supporting them. We have agreed a financial settlement and he will be paying more child maintenance than the calculator suggests. I don’t understand why people are attacking me for not wanting more money. I’m very happy with what we have agreed.

What if he changes the amount or leaves you with nothing one month

You need to go to lawyer for the children