To ask if your alpha male partner contributes around the house?

[BlancheW]

I’m going through a divorce and one of the biggest reasons for my feelings eroding away is because I also work full time, look after young children, have my own demanding career, but my husband expects me to pick up 99% of the physical and mental load. He does his own washing, occasionally puts the bins out, does bathtime about once every 3-4 months and does bedtime stories about once a month. I do everything else. I have asked for help and he says no. Hence the breakdown of the relationship.

My problem is, I’m usually attracted to alpha male types... intelligent, charismatic, charming, can hold his own in any debate, leaders, etc. I’m now wondering if this can possibly coexist with helping out more at home? Are all alpha males happy to leave the housework and childcare to their partners or are some of them a bit more developed in that regard?!

If your partner is an alpha male, does he help out?

Even a 60/40 or 65/35 capital settlement is not for you but to house your children.

By succumbing to a 50/50 displays the same traits as to why your not so DH won't take on his share of the housework etc. He is taking you for a mug on both counts and you are letting him.

my alpha male, does mma, has a high flying exec job and is confident etc loved to clean.

We do the cleaning together of a weekend and he tidies as much as me. he is a clean freak but does his fair share. We met after having children so i look after mine and his son is grown up but he will always help.

i wouldn't accept anything less, i work full time, i am an equal partner in the relationship why would i be his cleaner, cook etc?

he earns 3 times what i do but i have a more demanding / important job so he supports me often by taking kids to school etc

@BlancheW well done on making a firm decision and moving on. I'm interested in your query and have the same questions myself. But I married someone similar to your dh years ago and the marriage ended very quickly. I then went for someone who appeared much more gentle and the relationships started off relatively equal. However, he become increasingly lazy and incompetent and despite the fact that I had a much more demanding job I ended up carrying the majority of the cleaning and mental load though he did some washing, cooking and childcare. Ultimately, based on my experience and listening to my friends, I'm not sure that it's about 'alpha' or not, but more about many women being 'competent' at life and such men being lazy and doing the minimum they can get away with. We wouldn't want to live in a mess, nor for our children to suffer, and so they know we will 'carry it all' even if we are exhausted. Perhaps our competence is what they were attracted to? For me I am relieved my ex has gone at last and I hope your divorce etc comes through quickly. As others have said, enjoying your life as it is and the peace of being in charge of your own space and decisions should be bliss without the draining irritation of someone else not pulling their weight. I'm not sure I want to have another man living here and having to make those compromises - though I wonder if occasional great company and care from a non-live-in man might be a future option!

I find it fascinating that you picked up in the 'being capable' aspect because that's the main reason I am or am not attracted to a man. I'm my eyes a man who needs me to look after him through cooking, cleaning, producing and keeping alive children, sending his Moti birthday presents or any of that sort of crap, isn't at all capable. So no matter how 'alpha' they are in ither areas of life, I will never be able to find them attractive.

I recall many years ago I started dating a man who was funny, intelligent, driven and successful for his age. His hobbies were quite practical too. A few dates in, he made a comment about his female housemates being on holiday so he had no clean laundry and there was some paperwork council tax issue that needed to be sorted out which they would get a fire for because the deadline was before they returned.

So this man who fixed bikes for a hobby and ran a department at work couldn't figure out how to do laundry or call the council?! My practically heard my fanny scream 'no!' I ended things right there and told him that if he knows how to drive a car then her has more than enough skill to press a few buttons on a washing machine.

There is a reason Mother's often get the majority of a 60/40, 70/30 split.

'I'm my eyes a man who needs me to look after him through cooking, cleaning, producing and keeping alive children, sending his Moti birthday presents or any of that sort of crap, isn't at all capable. So no matter how 'alpha' they are in ither areas of life, I will never be able to find them attractive.'

This. There's something deeply unattractive and pathetic about this sort of laziness and deliberate domestic incompetence. A profound lack of self-respect and respect for others. My 15yo ds tries (increasingly half-heartedly, as he knows it won't wash) to pull this sort of thing and gets told very clearly how rubbish it is and that we won't tolerate it. In a teen it's forgivable. They're naturally self-absorbed and learning. In a grown man? Shocking. All the high-earning, self-aggrandising, rat-race-running 'alpha' crap looks rather hollow alongside such a lack of the most absolutely basic respect.

My dh fits PlanDeRaccordement's description of a 'beta' male above pretty well. The alpha/beta stuff is such stupid offensive terminology and says a lot about how we view men and male success. People like my dh who are interested in the job at hand and maintaining teams rather than in themselves are the ones who keep things running. He also happens, in my case, to pull more than his domestic weight.

Alpha/beta shit has no actual basis in reality.
My partner helps me with the housework because he lives here too.
I think too many people accept unfairness for a quiet life, and I sort of get that, but I'm too stubborn. I'd rather have an argument every single day than put up with basically being a grown man's mummy.

He's not a Alpha Male -he's an arrogant arsehole.

But why the nanny not do the bulk of the childcare? Why is there no cleaner?

Say I want equally one of the first tests some men do is "not be equal" and see how you react. ie You cook Monday - Wednesday. His turn Thursday - Saturday and you end up with take away etc.How do you respond to that.

Does alpha mean arrogant to you? Doesn’t appeal to me. Been married to DH for 24 years and still c happy. I have been full time/housework was equal), sahm( I did most but he shared childcare when home and some housework- he did bath time most nights), part time work now (9-3.30 term time) and I do most cleaning, he’s always done own ironing, I cook 80% in week, we share at weekends, he does all the diy and garden slog, I plant and dead head. Our DC are 19/16 and help out too now. DH is kind, loyal, a hard worker, not an arse and if I ask for any help he’s there, never a complaint. He’s fab, stop choosing arses.

Use a solicitor. As one doctor to another, your caring values are getting in the way and allowing others to treat you like a doormat.

This man is not your friend, it is not an amicable split.

The money is not for you, it is for your children. 50:50 is not the normal starting point for a couple with children and neither should it be for you.

Your patients consult an expert when they are ill. You need to consult an expert now for the sake of your children.

That's not an alpha male love, that's a twat.

Alpha is a bit of an outdated term I think, but works well enough for the purposes of this discussion.

I think you are conflating alpha with selfishness. Not all leaders are selfish, in the same way that not all 'beta' people are passive. You can be a stubborn follower and a collaborative leader.

In a nutshell I don't think this is about your STBExH being alpha - it's about him being a selfish prick.

He sounds awful. I know these sorts of men and some are happy to load the dishwasher and others aren't. A lot of it comes from expectations on them from childhood I think. I don't think it's just down to the personality type.

You're being a mug.

You need to do everything to protect the DC financially.

50:50 when you are raising his kids including paying for childcare etc is a very poor deal - kids especially teenagers are very expensive and you will regret it.

Get legal advice. You do not have to agree with everything solicitor says.

I suspect the reason why he's changed, has disengaged from family life is because he has someone else.

He actually said “I’m sorry Blanche, I just don’t care about you enough to be the husband you want me to be”.

That is so so sad. And that is the heart of the issue - the love has left your marriage (certainly on his side). I think the alpha/beta stuff is just a sideshow and pretty irrelevant. If your husband doesn't care about you any more then your marriage is effectively dead in the water.

I think men are human beings who don't fit into neat boxes. Sadly this person has fallen out of love with you, I am sorry it has come to this for you.

But actually my husband isn’t at all arrogant so perhaps not.

He's arrogant as fuck. He thinks a doctor on a covid ward doing 13hr+ shifts has no right to be tired. He can't be bothered to parent his own children and he treats you like shit.

intelligent, charismatic, charming, can hold his own in any debate, leaders, etc. I’m now wondering if this can possibly coexist with helping out more at home?

I'm ignoring the alpha terminology - it's dreadful. My OH is intelligent and can hold his own in debate. I have a phd and have found that many men with a similar level of education treat me as a threat. But my OH, who has a BSc but no postgrad education, just treats me as an equal. He's widely read, interested, and keeps himself informed and that's what appeals to me but just as importantly he respects me.

I wouldn't say he's charming or charismatic and those aren't values I trust. They're often superficial characteristics which draw you in but don't last. Frankly there's nothing charming about expecting your partner to clean up after you.

My OH isn't a leader either but again that doesn't bother me. He respects me and is secure with me. He's also a single, working parent so does all the care for his DC. We don't live together so he does all his own housework, DIY, car maintenance etc. All of that is way more of a turn on for me than wanky posturing, being a leader, and treating me like a dogsbody.

I have in the past fallen for the wrong men who have turned out to be tossers. This time I was much more careful. Don't worry about the superficial qualities but look to the lasting, fundamental qualities.

intelligent, charismatic, charming, can hold his own in any debate, leaders, etc.

That description describes my husband, and he's tidier than I am! We split chores and childcare fairly evenly - we take it in turns getting our son to bed (which involves bath/book routine). Whilst one is getting him to bed, the other tidies the kitchen/loads the dishwasher, etc.

There are a few things that one tends to do more than the other - he vacuums and does the gardening, I do the shopping and cook.

I didn't realise people still used the term 'Alpha Male'.
By your description my DH falls into that category but he would hate to be described as such. He contributes because he lives here too. It's that simple.

Posters not understanding 'alpha male'. Look up hegemonic masculinity. I think you all know what the OP is getting at, but being willfully obtuse in order to make your point. Yawn!

OP the stats tell us the women do most of the care work and household work. Full stop. The evidence is the same whether or which the male spouse is 'alpha' (or adheres to norms of hegemonic masculinity) earns more or not. Hypothesis that women do more stands up when considering women who earn significantly more.
This has become even more pronounced during covid.
As a researcher... This totally depresses me! As a womam, even more so.

I know what you mean by Alpha male OP, it is a stereotype, yes, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's certainly to do with leadership and confidence and really that confidence should translate in other areas of life, taking care of themselves, knowing themselves, so they shouldn't need a 'mummy' figure to sort their home-life out. I think you've probably hit the nail on the head saying your ex stopped caring and let you do it all. If he was capable before, when you first met.
N.B. In dating, I've found more of that confident, mature AND able to deal with their feelings type in America than in the UK. A lot of British men don't seem to be very grown up somehow.

DH is intelligent, charismatic, has plenty of male friends he can also work a hoover, and isn't put out that I earn more than he does, they aren't mutually exclusive things.
You have cast yourself in a Beta role, no such thing in this house. When I first went back after Mat leave and DH didn't seem to recognise the need for him to step up his game I asked if his penis affected his eyesight/limited the number of tasks he could complete in a week. As he's not an utter misogynist he got my point and got on with things.
His job also includes psychotherapeutic work with vulnerable people and those convicted of serious offences so no excuse for not getting things emotionally either. If you pick a knuckle dragger you know what type you're getting. That's not for me.

My DP and I live apart. This shows me that he is well able to run a business and a home without relying on a woman to deal with the home studs. From what I understand, and of course this is just his version of events, when he was married, he did all the cleaning, laundry, cooking, shopping for all four of them. I don’t know if that is true but I could well believe it as he is very tidy and organised and an amazing cook. He has a very charismatic personality which he needs in his job as people’s lives literally depend on his leadership and trusting his instructions (works in a very high physical risk industry). He owns his own very successful business and has his kids about 40% of the time - manages to get them to school and activities he arranges on the nights they are with him, fed, cleaned and clothed. It’s not beyond the wit of man to take care of all aspects of life. But. Just to be on the safe side, I will never ever live with him.

Mine is definitely the alpha variety and is more domesticated than me tbh.

I have what you describe as an alpha male - high achieving, high income, charming, charismatic, workaholic type.
He does more around the house than me. I used to do majority of childcare because I was either mainly at home or working part-time. He still did more housework as I’d reduced my work commitments to raise the children not to be a housekeeper.

If you’re both on good salaries, then pay a housekeeper and get your nanny doing some bits of household things like children’s laundry and beds.
Divide the rest of the chores fairly. Make some men’s jobs if he needs his ego massaging. Bins every day, drains, garden, carrying heavy shopping, high dusting, ironing, Sunday lunch.
If you cook, he clears up. Get the children to ask for daddy to read stories every night. Ask him whether he’d rather tidy or bath the children.
Praise don’t nag.

DH does his share of parenting, he also does what he considers his share of the house work. We are very different in our approaches - I would rather keep on top of things, he would rather let things get really messy and dirt and do a big tidy & clean once a fortnight.

He doesn't expect me to do it, he'd be perfectly happy if I worked to his 'schedule' with regards to house work.

As for mental load, DH just doesn't plan and prep. So kids need an outfit for world book day, he'll knock something up on the fly the day before or that morning. Kids need a pack-lunch for a school trip, he'd rather go to the supermarket on the way to school than have to think about it days before.

The two approaches are very different, but neither is wrong, but I don't think they are compatible.