To be fuming at colleague talking to me like he is my manager?

[Maria53]

I am a project manager in my late 20s. The male colleague in question is late 30s to early 40s I would say. He is a web developer and I oversee the overall projects. My line manager is happy with the way this project is progressing and I have to all in hand.

Well today this developer started saying things 'you need to push the client to get X information because David says the project has to be completed by X date'. David has only said as much because I set that deadline! And I have already done everything he says I 'need' to do.

He has twice today told me he thinks I should set up meetings with my own clients when a meeting has already been set up and it is nothing to do with him. He even asked 'have you done X yet?' about something which is NONE of his business and a line of questioning I expect from my manager only.

Basically I am perfectly capable with what I am doing and am not willing to be undermined in this way. Any tips?

It’s really important to not get angry, to handle it coolly and amusedly. Look up when he comes in. Ah here’s David to tell me what he doesn’t like about the plan. What is it today David?
But I too would be concerned about his deliverables. Don’t stay away from that because you are mad. Pretend he is someone else who you want to help and think about what progress signs you’ve seen, what the deadlines are and what the ramifications of him missing them or under delivering are. I’d ask him in detail if it’s going ok, say I understand things are difficult right now, it’s just because if it’s not going to be complete I need to do early messaging to the client and be planning the options- so when will the code be checked in? You will be running tests starting Tuesday? And the whole spec is in it?Just shout if you think anything is changing on those dates.

Tell him straight. I know how to do my job so how about you concentrate on doing yours. I know the deadline because I set it. If you need to know something I will tell you other than that please focus on your own task.

Not sure about this - a lot of companies use 360 reviews as the norm; I've both given them and received them since the early 00's.

Good point. We phased them out about eight years ago. But I think the concept was a good one even if the process when it was formally done was a bit uncomfortable so many people were not honest.

I would just say, "that's all in hand, and how are you getting on with xyz" so divert the focus back onto him.

That's what my boss does anyway. It's a polite dismissal and puts the emphasis back on who is calling the shots.

you need to push the client to get X information because David says the project has to be completed by X date'. David has only said as much because I set that deadline! And I have already done everything he says I 'need' to do.

I don't think that sounds unreasonable tbh, I've asked similar things over the years to my PMs, it sounds like it might be a communication issue and you've said the clients are crap at giving information, it can be frustrating as a dev with not enough info. Have a talk with him, but no need to go in all guns blazing.

I wouldn't be drawing battle lines and saying mind your own business. It sounds like his questioning is a recent development. I'd personally get on the phone / in a meeting room and discuss it with him. Hey Bob, I've noticed you've been checking I'm doing things eg meetings etc. I'm on top of it all but I'm a little concerned something is happening on your end that I'm not aware of. Is there something I need to be aware of?

Put the ball in his court. Having him working with you is much better than having him oppose you. Allowing him to be heard and feel valued might be all he needs.

Personally I would much prefer someone actually engaged in the project and asking questions to someone smiling and nodding. Different views and approaches to yours are not wrong. If the subject matter expert ie him is saying something should be done a different way, listen to the reasons and discuss it. Yes you may not go with what he suggests, but try to understand where he is coming from.

Really handy thing I've learnt is that everyone wants to do their best. The role of a manager is to harness that and direct it, not stomp it out because I'm the boss and you do as I say (which is the vibe I'm getting from your posts).

Have tried the usual withering comments?

'Albert, we had this conversation last week'
'Albert, you asked me that last week, remember?'

*not real name

Colleagues suddenly acting very different to usual is one of the classic signs of stress that we are training and encouraged to look out for. OP mentioned that they are all under stress and burning out.

Worth a conversation

Next time he does his self appointed manager crap you have to do it back to him. Once he starts interupt him with 'im just going to stop you there, this was discussed at the meeting, perhaps next time take notes so you don't forget, would you like me to email you what was discussed?' You need to be assertive and try to make him feel silly. If he keeps doing it next time you have a meeting where you talk about the project ask him to take minutes so he won't forget what was discussed.
Its a power play, there is nothing worse than working with a self appointed manager.

I used to be a bid manager in the FM sector so managed a lot fairly large bids, generally £10m+.

Without having been there it's difficult to ascertain if he was being patronising, but you seem to be assuming it's because he's a man and older than you. It may just be that he's more experienced and wants to preempt any issues.

I had to 'manage' a lot of divisional directors and senior SMEs and many were actually more knowledgeable/experienced on the nuances of the bid process than I was as a fresh faced 28yo. It's just that their job remit wasn't to manage the bid process and deadlines and they often tended to be very focused on a particular aspect of the overall process and didn't have time to faff around with r/s meetings and circulating updates/managing calendars.

I quickly learnt to take their recommendations seriously....

You are stressed, could he be stressed? Do you have good interpersonal skills as you sound as though you are relying on an authoritarian approach. I agree with pp who say dealing with this is part of your job, you sound unprofessional, fuming and losing your cool, which could of course be because you are feeling stressed and overworked, as may he.

Really handy thing I've learnt is that everyone wants to do their best. The role of a manager is to harness that and direct it, not stomp it out because I'm the boss and you do as I say (which is the vibe I'm getting from your posts).

It's classic behaviour from a young manager though, coming down hard to try and assert their authority. It doesn't work with technical staff that may well be the same or higher grade than you. The best managers are those that make their team enthusiastic about their work, not in a cheesy corporate way (tech people do all the eye rolling at that) but by making people feel listened to and supported and being enthusiastic and/or reassuringly grumpy about it all.

Also, Shmurf speaks a lot of sense.

@Palavah

OP people aren't trying to wind you up here. You asked for tips. Many of us are suggesting ways that you can leverage the work you've already done and your PM skills to handle this guy. That doesn't mean we dont believe there's sexism or ageism at play. Stay professional, calm, specific, constructive and you'll be grand. Please dont take it personally!

This. It also sounds like everyone is burning out. I hope things improve for you soon.

If he left the project tomorrow it would be hard for you to do his work or get someone to do it at short notice.

If you left the project tomorrow it would be easy to replace you.

Is he really interfering? Just sounds like s discussion within the project to me. You sound very thin skinned, have you been doing project management for long?

I am not answering questions about whether I have done x, y and z when I am the project PM and it is irrelevant. A meeting is planned and everyone knows what they have to do in that timeframe. He is only asking these questions because he doesnt trust that I am on track with my own project. I answer enough questions from my 2 managers

I totally get how frustrating and undermining it feels to be questioned in this way, but sometimes you just have to suck it up and accept that some staff can only function well when they know exactly what is going on. It sounds to me as though he may be one of those, and is inwardly fretting about whether he's going to get what he needs to deliver his end of the project on schedule.

A former manager of mine once told me that when she was tasked with changing anything that would impact on the work we did, she used to ask herself "What will Lakie want to know about this?" and make sure she had those bases covered. She totally got that I needed to know all the ins and outs before I felt I was really in a position to apply the changes without running into otherwise unforeseen hitches.

This guy sounds a bit like that. With me, it's a control thing, in the sense that I don't feel in control unless I know everything else is running as it should. I need that reassurance. Nothing unsettles me more than being told I don't need to know something!

His manner needs some work though. Could you take him aside and explain that you feel he's undermining you, and see if between you you can find a way of working that gives him the certainty he needs to function without you feeling that he's overstepping boundaries or calling your ability to manage into question?

Failing that, kick the problem upstairs and get someone more senior to tell him to STFU!

It's also important to note - and sorry for the stereotype- but a lot of technical people aren't so hot on communication so they will come out as abrasive or woolly or whatever.

I take that as a good thing. The folks in my team are technically brilliant and much cleverer than I could ever be at developing and building technology. What they aren't so good at doing is pulling together as individuals and determining priorities.

Thankfully that's my forte so we all add value doing our bit. If they could do those things well, then they wouldn't need me and without technical skills, I'd find it a lot harder to get another job.

From my long and varied career in and around project management, I'd say you are always going to come up against situations like this. If you are 'fuming' and need to come to Mumsnet for advice, maybe you are in the wrong role?

There was something about the tone of your original post, echoed in some later posts that really suggests to me that you have in your mind a sense of hierarchy in the workplace whereby you, as a manager, are on a higher level than the technical staff you feel you are ‘supervising/overseeing’.

I would be out the door if I worked for you.

I was employed a few years ago as a teacher in a school (supply) that asked me to stay on for the year. This school had huge problems with staff turnover and they appointed a nursery nurse as learning manager. She then tried to be ‘over’ the teachers in a really inappropriate way - withholding information that was learning related, making a big drama about safeguarding when we had very clear and specific guidelines that she needed to follow, trying to assert an authority and expertise she simply didn’t have with the people who were trying to help her. I was stunned at the unprofessional and inappropriate nature of some of it. Eventually, she was given the budget for books (when we were scouring the secondhand shops) and bought a whole load of Disney books.

My point is that just because this guy is a techie doesn’t mean that he doesn’t know the right questions to ask in a project and the fact that he is asking them might actually highlight something you have overlooked.

I am really shocked at the attitude, lack of professionalism and general shortcut thinking of many of the 20 somethings I have met but mostly it is this framing of anyone older than them as a dinosaur and the tone overall with you is that this man is a hindrance you shouldn’t have to deal with rather than a part of your team.

If I can read you like this, so can he. Try showing some respect for his experience, skill set (you are replaceable as someone said - he, not so much) and just h as a person.

For those of you who have suggested some pretty passive aggressive, nasty things to do- I am shocked. I despair at women who default to criticisms of sexism before they have considered their own behaviour.

OP I’m sure you have it all in hand, and you gut instinct is no doubt correct- developer not staying in his lane and patronising/undermining the younger female PM.
Patronise him right back, stay polite because he’s a resource on your team so best keep him onside, but you need to remind him that he just needs to focus on the tasks he is set and you will manage the rest.

@Areyouactuallyseriousrightnow

OP I’m sure you have it all in hand, and you gut instinct is no doubt correct- developer not staying in his lane and patronising/undermining the younger female PM. Patronise him right back, stay polite because he’s a resource on your team so best keep him onside, but you need to remind him that he just needs to focus on the tasks he is set and you will manage the rest.

Sorry, this is flippant advice and will just escalate an already stressful situation. Think about what will help deliver the best project. Not about your hurty feelz.

That’s the just the point areyiuactuallyseriuosrightnow, we do not know this is sexism, maybe the op isn’t managing the team very well.

@BackwardsGoing it’s really not going to escalate the situation by OP saying don’t you worry that’s in hand as per the update meeting you were in on Monday, And how are you getting on with XYZ?

@Northernparent68 OP is having her own deadlines repeated back to her by older male colleague, she indirectly manages him as she is PM yet he is asking her about her own work- but you think she’s the one at fault?

OP I’ve done your job for a long time. Keep it respectful, but give as good as you get and he will pull back. As PP have said, different communication styles, personality types etc, he is overstepping boundaries but you can deal with this politely and decisively and you’ll both move past it.

@Areyouactuallyseriousrightnow but "patronise right back" will.

Thoughtful, empathetic communication is one of the most important skills of a PM. You simply can't afford to get uppity over a perceived slight. That doesn't mean you bow and scrape, but you do have to check you are bringing everyone along with you on the plan.

The default “it must be sexism/ageism” does no favours.

OP does give some hints of being quite autocratic here -

“Now I think about it he didnt implement something I asked him to do 2 weeks ago. When I asked why not he said another way was better (it was not).”

• if the developer is the expert, why are you overruling his methods? Surely you are just adding to his workload and burnout?