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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be fuming at colleague talking to me like he is my manager?

168 replies

Maria53 · 22/07/2020 19:03

I am a project manager in my late 20s. The male colleague in question is late 30s to early 40s I would say. He is a web developer and I oversee the overall projects. My line manager is happy with the way this project is progressing and I have to all in hand.

Well today this developer started saying things 'you need to push the client to get X information because David says the project has to be completed by X date'. David has only said as much because I set that deadline! And I have already done everything he says I 'need' to do.

He has twice today told me he thinks I should set up meetings with my own clients when a meeting has already been set up and it is nothing to do with him. He even asked 'have you done X yet?' about something which is NONE of his business and a line of questioning I expect from my manager only.

Basically I am perfectly capable with what I am doing and am not willing to be undermined in this way. Any tips?

OP posts:
Palavah · 22/07/2020 20:11

*I'll let you know when something affects your remit, thank you, David'.

'That's a very good idea, David. Why don't you come up with something and submit it to me? I could give it a check just to make sure everything's in order and, if it is, I'll take it forward.'*

If I came across a PM who was this passive-aggressive to me or my team, I'd be seriously unimpressed and I'd be playing it back the PIR if not before.

BaseDrops · 22/07/2020 20:13

Or you are reading considered responses from women who have experience of IT project management.

It COULD be sexism or ageism. But it could also be a developer who is great at the tech part of his job, justifiably worried about being to do his job who has really poor communication skills.

Original poster
Maria53 · 22/07/2020 20:15

Thank you @MrsJakeLovell. I agree.

His colleague was recently promoted instead of him in his department. Maybe he is trying to exert a bit of power over me instead.

RE the problem client I give them frequent kicks up the back side. In fact when a client has become this problematic my line manager has stepped in. Another guy on the project confided he felt she had handled things poorly by creating extra stress and work for everyone by not dealing with the client. I agree. In the last meeting with the client she even bowed out early.

OP posts:
Original poster
Maria53 · 22/07/2020 20:17

Now I think about it he didnt implement something I asked him to do 2 weeks ago. When I asked why not he said another way was better (it was not).

In the end my boss agreed with me and overruled him. He has still not made the change I asked of him.

OP posts:
BlueBirdGreenFence · 22/07/2020 20:18

You've answered your own questions in these posts. You say he doesn't communicate unless he really has to. So he's obviously worried about something possibly impeding on the project being delivered on time. Have a conversation with him and ask him.

Argggghhneedclarity · 22/07/2020 20:18

Are his comments having a detrimental effect on the project? I think speaking to him directly but politely about why you think he's out of line might be best. It sounds like he wants to make you think he knows better than you. He might have loads of valuable experience but maybe he needs to know when to pipe down.

BaseDrops · 22/07/2020 20:20

Ok with your latest info he needs managed. Get all over his tasks every time he asks you anything. And when he doesn’t.

Kaiserin · 22/07/2020 20:22

The client is a real problem. They take forever to respond and don't fulfil their end of the bargain. They take no responsibility and leave everything to us. It has become a real issue.

As a techy, this sounds like... Just about every client, ever, for that kind of project?

OP, I voted YANBU, and I'd like to help, but...

How many projects have you managed before?
Are you, perhaps, a bit new to your current role?

This still wouldn't justify the Web developer bossing you around, but it's important to know, in order to give you proper advice.

endchauvinism · 22/07/2020 20:31

It's probably sexism. A lot of men go nuts when a woman has any athority at work.
I've had cases where I politely instructed a man on something that needed to be done and they argued with me til another man came and told him to do the same thing I just said.
Then they just did it.

Best of luck to you. These men are everywhere.

Ballybeyondthepail · 22/07/2020 20:34

Christ, I’m 20 years older than you and can’t tell you how many men like this I’ve had to deal with over the years. Ignore him, tell him to do one - stick to your guns.

Hopeisnotastrategy · 22/07/2020 20:34

@MrsJakeLovell

The answers you are getting on this thread really shows how Mumsnet has changed over the years.

Previously, your post would have been recognised for the sexism/ageism you are on the receiving end of and you would have been advised accordingly.

Now - he is right to be questioning you and you are a failing manager.

Some posters really need to examine their replies and maybe visit the FWR board to reset their misogyny.

This.
Original poster
Maria53 · 22/07/2020 20:35

I think the root of this is that my instincts are that it is sexism and possibly ageism. I have had the latter part time and again because I look young for my age as it is and I'm late 20s.

I used to be self employed and would have professional initial chats over the phone and then we would meet in person and they would say 'you're so young!'. It gets me down although it isnt usually an issue.

OP posts:
Livpool · 22/07/2020 20:36

I'm a Test Analyst and am frequently caught between PMs and developers. My experience has been that the different components/people get too caught up in their own work that they forget it is part of a bigger project. Maybe that has happened here and he doesn't have the capability to step back and ask questions

9PointsOnMyLicence · 22/07/2020 20:42

I've seen this so many times.
Despite his assurances (and your confidence in home) he will either not deliver on time or he will deliver a heap of crap that the customer rejects. He can see it coming and is covering his arse.

Either because of him, changing requirements, lack of client information whatever, the project is about to go to hell in a handcart. There is something in the details that you're not aware of.

How do I know? Been there and got the scars to prove it.

Get him to itemise EVERYTHING that he will need. Then make sure he gets it. Remove the excuses.

MulticolourMophead · 22/07/2020 20:44

@9PointsOnMyLicence

I've seen this so many times. Despite his assurances (and your confidence in home) he will either not deliver on time or he will deliver a heap of crap that the customer rejects. He can see it coming and is covering his arse.

Either because of him, changing requirements, lack of client information whatever, the project is about to go to hell in a handcart. There is something in the details that you're not aware of.

How do I know? Been there and got the scars to prove it.

Get him to itemise EVERYTHING that he will need. Then make sure he gets it. Remove the excuses.

Actually, while I agree it's likely ageism and sexism that's behind this. I'd go into things with detail with him, make sure he's on track, and get him told about things that he's been requested to do and hasn't done.

Cover your arse. If he's grumpy about not having been promoted, he could be taking stuff out on you.

Wanderingstars4238 · 22/07/2020 20:46

I think you'll find more support in the feminism chat area of this board.
The women over there totally get it and can spot sexism a mile away.
Which is what this most likely is (and ageism). And he's probably one of those guys who rules his eyes if women bring up sexism, like that's a thing of the past.
I lost two jobs in the very male dominant state of Texas just in the last year and a half and I'm certain it was due to sexism both times.
I've worked with mostly men over the years. Some things just get obvious after a while.

Original poster
Maria53 · 22/07/2020 20:46

Oh no @9PointsOnMyLicence, I hope not! The last meeting with the client went so well and I felt we were on the right track.

But now I am worried that something isnt right on his end. I had better talk to him tomorrow to tackle this. And try to keep my cool....

OP posts:
Lurkingforawhile · 22/07/2020 20:50

I'm going to confess that sometimes I am like your colleague. I know (from some recent development training) that I have a very strong need for control. I fight it all the time. That might be what's going on here. Until I did the training I knew what was happening but not why, and it's much easier to deal now I understand. I'm not sure this helps you, just thought I would share what might be going on.

MoreOfADogPerson · 22/07/2020 20:56

@Maria53

Now I think about it he didnt implement something I asked him to do 2 weeks ago. When I asked why not he said another way was better (it was not).

In the end my boss agreed with me and overruled him. He has still not made the change I asked of him.

Ok, as a fellow PM. Is this activity in your plan, with a clear milestone date? Do you use a RAG status for your milestones? If so, this should now be red, and he should be providing an update at every status meeting on his red milestone. This should be visible on upwards reporting/status reporting. Are you working Agile/Scrum or waterfall? What are the downstream impacts of this?

Do you have a risk raised against this activity not being completed and the impact on the overall delivery? In fact, this is now an issue as it's past due.

One of the weapons we have as PMs is effective governance (not governance for the sake of it) - time to use governance for good instead of evil, plus there is absolutely no comeback to this!

GrumpyHoonMain · 22/07/2020 20:58

At my employer there are two project managers - one like you who manages the overall schedule. The other is manages the technical side and is usually the most senior web or front end developer as they tend to have most client facing experience. In an agile tech project the senior web developer would be the top dog and need regular client facing time.

Only push back if you know,100%, what is going on in terms of the tech side.

honeygirlz · 22/07/2020 21:01

This thread is depressing. OP, are still men who think they can boss women about, especially younger women.

I had a similar issue and I found that when I stood up for myself, it soon got nipped in the bud.

PurBal · 22/07/2020 21:03

DH is a project manager and web developer. It's a team job (front end, back end, etc). Needing X to be completed before Y can etc. Maybe it's the tone you struggle with?

serenada · 22/07/2020 21:05

I don't know about all of this advice.

Have you tried dropping the front and just talking to him?

You seem to have framed this from the start as you (young, female, ambitious) and him as old, stale and rigid. You do need to be a certain mentality to work with tech and I suspect he does know a few things.

I don't know, OP - if you were my PM, I'd be running for the hills. I think he has the measure of you.

PurBal · 22/07/2020 21:05

Eurgh, sorry my response sounds super patronising. But sometimes I get wound up by the way people speak to me when what I'm being asked isn't entirely unreasonable.

tallulahwullah · 22/07/2020 21:05

I think based on his age (older than you) he's threatened so has decided to use you to make him feel better........a martyr guiding you in this chauvinistic man world!
He is obviously lacking confidence if behaving like this.......so needs to wake up to the times that women don't need guiding & that he should concentrate on his own job!Grin