To be fuming at colleague talking to me like he is my manager?

[Maria53]

I am a project manager in my late 20s. The male colleague in question is late 30s to early 40s I would say. He is a web developer and I oversee the overall projects. My line manager is happy with the way this project is progressing and I have to all in hand.

Well today this developer started saying things 'you need to push the client to get X information because David says the project has to be completed by X date'. David has only said as much because I set that deadline! And I have already done everything he says I 'need' to do.

He has twice today told me he thinks I should set up meetings with my own clients when a meeting has already been set up and it is nothing to do with him. He even asked 'have you done X yet?' about something which is NONE of his business and a line of questioning I expect from my manager only.

Basically I am perfectly capable with what I am doing and am not willing to be undermined in this way. Any tips?

The thing is, although there is every chance this is ageist and sexist, you can only go so far when its legitimate questions. Too hard a pushback and you're the unreasonable one. 'I only asked where this information was and she told me to shove it'. Any complaining and you'll get told you have to learn to manage expectations, communicate effectively etc. There is no 'winning' with this, so, while you might not like the advice upthread, it is useful.

You could get all up into his role & start chasing his & reporting it that he's bit behind. Tell him quite directly that these are the timelines you have set him & make it clear you are feeding back on everyone including his progress!
You need to shift the power balance with this ass hole! X

Yeah I bet something has/is going wrong at his end, and rather than owning up he is deflecting.

A simple "I'm wondering why you're asking" would get to the heart of this...And in person not via email so you can follow up with questions/bottom out what the real issue is rather than having half of Mumsnet speculate

I once worked with a guy who was the same level as me but slightly older. We were both Senior Structural Engineers.

One day he left a load of paperwork on my desk with a post it note saying "file this".

I wrote on the post it "File it yourself ".

He never asked again or tried to take advantage of me.

Sometimes you just need to be direct with people like that.

Good luck.

Now I think about it he didn't implement something I asked him to do 2 weeks ago. When I asked why not he said another way was better (it was not).

This could be male vs female but it could just be PM vs techy which, in my experience, is an equally bitter and viscous struggle.

To be fair, you've effectively done to him what you're now complaining he's doing to you. You've undermined him and questioned his capability.

If you're a former techy in his specialism, you understand there's more than one way to skin a cat and it's fair enough to challenge him. If not, you may well have inadvertently made his life more difficult and obstructed your own project.

One thing I would say is that you may be a brilliant PM and you may be right but as a techy who has been screwed over by a stupid and dishonest PM, I wouldn't be taking any risks by not stating what I needed and when in a paper trail no matter how much I respected your capability.

Why can't you just answer his questions.
David and I decided the deadlines which we are on course to meet.
Yes, I am meeting the client on Monday, please let me know of any questions you need answered.
X project is coming along to plan, have you managed to complete your side? Or are there any problems I need to know about.

*vicious not viscous

Although "viscous" works nearly as well.

@PurBal

PurBal

DH is a project manager and web developer. It's a team job (front end, back end, etc). Needing X to be completed before Y can etc. Maybe it's the tone you struggle with?

Are you actually using the medium of your H to mansplain to the OP?

This place is nuts!

You are taking it personally and sound very defensive, you are fuming and you will try to keep your cool because someone is asking questions? You come across like you have nothing to learn.

I agree with @serenada

Look, if you are going to be a successful project manager you need to be able to deal with this kind of nonsense much more calmly! Part of the unwritten JD is dealing with fuckwits. Just talk to the guy, show him you've listened, taken his views on board and have the situation under control.

He might be a sexist pig, he might be plain old arrogant or he might be just distracted and not listening to what you're telling him.

But really, don't get worked up about it or you'll burn yourself out.

Yes @MoreofADogPerson - spot on!

If he questioned what and how I was doing I'd ask him "how would you do it, then Peter, and how would the outcome be different?"
So, listen to his thoughts and gently challenge him.
For the asking you if you've done tasks, I would either ignore him, ask him to email me his concerns or ask him if his work is being delayed by whatever it was.
If you feel able to have a 1-1 chat I would point out that his behaviour makes it look like he doesn't understand, or that he is overbearing. And you know that's not true, but wanted him to know how he is coming across. Do not say anything about how he makes you feel.
Good luck.

I'm in PM role and the one thing I've learnt as I've got older is the less you take it personally and the more you get on without letting your own emotions cloud things, then the better the project will go. Basically I try to keep myself as a bit of a blank canvas emotion wise, as no good comes from letting people know they have got you riled up.

I also find it important to address issues directly, but being confrontational rarely works in the long term.

In this case with this guy every time he says "You need to do x" wait for him to finish and respond calmly and factually "On Tuesday I asked them to provide x, shall I forward you the email chain".

I'd also be really worried that what he's building isn't fit for purpose as questioning classic deflection technique.

I am not answering questions about whether I have done x, y and z when I am the project PM and it is irrelevant. A meeting is planned and everyone knows what they have to do in that timeframe. He is only asking these questions because he doesnt trust that I am on track with my own project. I answer enough questions from my 2 managers.

I am stressed. We are living through a global pandemic and I have had 2 days off amidst everything that is happening. My workload has tripled and everyone is burning out. Apparently the web guys are also burned out and the workloads arent reasonable.

I think sometimes we over think our communication and use softer language which can get in the way when communicating with some personality types.

I find it useful to think about how I perceive a man would respond to this type of behaviour and use that as input to my own behaviour.

I find this generally leads me to be more direct in my conversation with the individual. I might ask why they felt it necessary to instruct me or raise xx but I would try to put the anger aside first so it can be a calm discussion.

If the individual doesn't have a good justification or reason then I'd explain that I find it a bit rude and clarify our roles and what is acceptable and what isn't

Ok OP you're busy and working hard and you're the PM. That doesn't really resolve your issue though.

In a situation like this I'd try to talk to someone who had worked with him before - see if they have any constructive strategies on how to work with him.

He's acting out for some reason and regardless of how little time you have now, if he doesn't deliver what's needed or is delayed, you're going to have even less time to resolve at that point.

I find it useful to think about how I perceive a man would respond to this type of behaviour and use that as input to my own behaviour.

That's not a "man" thing. Always respond with the expertise, professionalism and assertiveness, appropriate to your role and don't think that as a woman you can't and shouldn't do that.

Doing merely that, I've actually made more than one mansplainer cry. One of them twice. They don't like to be firmly and logically challenged.

As a PM/Implementation Consultant, if you’ve got a clearly defined project plan with regular journal updates for any tasks lagging behind with roles and responsibilities indicated... he sounds like a bellend. I’d be pointing him back to the information already shared and saying he can consult that and if there are any concerns or anything that is unclear, then he can come and ask.

At my employer there are two project managers - one like you who manages the overall schedule. The other is manages the technical side and is usually the most senior web or front end developer as they tend to have most client facing experience. In an agile tech project the senior web developer would be the top dog and need regular client facing time.

Only push back if you know,100%, what is going on in terms of the tech side.

This. I'm a technical lead and I would absolutely check the PM had done what they need to do and expect them to do the same to me. It's not about pulling rank or ego it's about equals working together to achieve the goal. I would be very pissed off if a fresh-faced PM set milestones without consulting with my technical team and had meetings with the client without me and my team. You can have the prettiest gantt chart in the world but if it isn't related to reality it's meaningless, and you find out what reality is by listening to the tech team.

Look, it may well be that he is ageist and sexist and treating you unfairly. But what are you going to do about that? You still need to deliver the project with him. Throwing your toys out of the pram or going PA or running to your boss to complain will not help. You need to learn how to quickly build a relationship with bad-tempered middle-aged tech leads who've seen everything and think you are a glorified secretary with an over inflated sense of your own importance. Keep your ego and rank out of it and don't take things personally. You need to talk to him and ignore the bluster and work out what is bothering him. You need to communicate clearly with your team and you need to listen to them when they highlight issues. But also be able to tell when someone is saying things are fine when they aren't.

If you're sure all needed communication is in place and this colleague is being a "squeaky wheel" for reasons unrelated to getting his work done, then shut him down. Do it politely if you can - you still have to work with him - but more importantly do it firmly.

If you're sure it's warranted, treat his comments/suggestions as unsolicited but well-intentioned advice. Don't get angry, and don't take ANYTHING personally. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that (or wondering if) he has some inside info from David or the client or the team. IF there is some special insight he has - maybe he's worked with this client before, or been in the PM role on a similar project? - then perhaps pay more attention to SPECIFIC suggestions, but trust your gut. Think critically, and keep your cool.

If you're sure he's out of line - I like to use vague, bland, impersonal corporate-speak for this kind of thing:

Thanks for the advice.
David and I are on the same page.
It's handled.
It's under control.
We have open communication channels with the client.
Is there some specific information/help you need to complete your deliverables?

As a side note: I've had people do similar, possibly thinking that I was an easy mark because I was younger, less experienced (in terms of total time in the workplace, not necessarily in relevant experience or in role), female, outwardly mild-mannered, or whatever. Those prejudices exist, and are normalised. But it can also be that someone's a perpetual backseat driver and would give unnecessary input to any project manager. Some people just don't like being in a subordinate role - although they often also don't want to do the unglamourous ongoing work required to be a leader. Often, team members are valuable experts in their own area but don't understand the project manager role, so don't realise their view of a situation may be limited or distorted. And some people just want to feel important/included.

Also, remember that while you DO have the reponsibility to make sure this team member gets his work done adequately and on time, you DON'T have any role in managing or coaching him beyond that. If he's generally a PITA to work with/manage, you only care about that if and when it prevents him or others (including you) from completing their work on the project.

Sounds to me like he is trying to deflect from the fact HE isn't up to speed on his tasks.

I'd dig further.

'Good morning Jim, anything that's none of your business to mansplain today? No? Swell. Because it was boring the arse off me'.

With greatest respect, a performance review only tells you how you are at upward communication with your line manager and senior managers above. It doesn’t and cannot cover the 360degrees of communication that are needed as a project manager.

Not sure about this - a lot of companies use 360 reviews as the norm; I've both given them and received them since the early 00's. It is tricky, though. There are always confidentiality concerns. Not everyone wants to speak up about a problem, especially if they see it as something in the past. Conversely, some people easily offer criticism with a limited view of the role/situation - for example, a frontline worker saying his supervisor spends too much time in meetings, without necessarily knowing what the sup role entails or what goes on in the meetings. The manager/reviewer soliciting the advice has to get to the heart of what's impeding work - in this case, to ask the commentator to specify not what the sup SHOULD have done, but what the employee needed to do his job effectively and did not get. Teasing out the useful and relevant info is a skill that is not always understood, nor taught.

OP people aren't trying to wind you up here. You asked for tips. Many of us are suggesting ways that you can leverage the work you've already done and your PM skills to handle this guy. That doesn't mean we dont believe there's sexism or ageism at play.
Stay professional, calm, specific, constructive and you'll be grand. Please dont take it personally!