AIBU to not trust my gut on man I'm dating?

[StartingAgain33]

I've been dating someone for three months. He's thoughtful, intelligent, successful, wants the same things in life as me and has made it clear that he sees a future with me (as much as someone can in such a short space of time). He also has literally built my dream life and is inviting me to be a part of it. But my gut keeps telling me to run away, and my therapist says that one of my key challenges is learning to tune into and act on my gut. I'm obsessing and would love your thoughts.

I worry I'm focusing on the negatives too much. I'm about to be 36, keen to have children and tired of being in a dating pool with guys that either don't have their shit together and so by default aren't ready for kids, or who are emotionally avoidant and not willing to put their cards on the table. This guy is neither of those things, and is up for doing the work of a real relationship. So I worry this is just my commitment issues - and potentially anxiety at having met someone so amazing - coming to the fore. What would you think?

Good things:

• He is open about wanting to settle down, feeling ready for children (a priority for me), about having done the necessary work to get to this point with a therapist (he went to boarding school from a young age and was very starved of love - so had a very avoidant dating pattern). He had one 18 month relationship which ended last year which he said went a long way to healing some of his commitment issues. However, he never loved her and they broke it off as they both felt (I think it was more that he felt) that what they had wasn't 'enough'. This was after they had moved in together to test the relationship (I kind of think you should know if you love someone before making that move, and wonder how much anxiety she was hiding?)
• He is very successful and leads a really great life. He's open and generous with this life - introducing me to friends and family, making fun trips happen all the time
• His future vision is the same as mine to an uncanny degree
• He's not afraid to challenge me and be honest about things, something which I find difficult (I have an anxious attachment pattern)
• Seems to have a realistic view of what to expect from relationships
• He's very good at going for what he wants and making things happen, which I find attractive
• Has great, very close long-term friendships - shows he is capable of longer term intimacy
• Is very up for 'doing the work' in a relationship
• Is kind when I open up to him about difficulties, and makes an effort to be there for me
• Is very consistent with communication, very much leading on this aspect of our relationship

Bad things:

• He has a very avoidant past (41 years old, has had one relationship in the past 20 or so years and many flings), and I think may have difficulty in general connecting to people. Even though I know this, I keep blame myself for what I feel is a lack of connection in our interactions (I'm not sure he feels this too, although I'm thinking about asking him as it's driving me crazy - like an elephant in the room)
• I just have a terrible gut feeling a lot of the time. When I'm with him, there's a sort of stilted atmosphere (I feel) and I don't feel able to relax. We hardly laugh. He's quiet quite a lot. He's been honest that he has abandonment issues and that he is hypervigilant to signs of rejection, which makes him quiet, so I've tried to have patience with it but I also feel hypervigilant around him. I've tried to spend lots of time with him to get over this and it's still there most of the time
• Talks about relationships as 'work' a lot - feels a little joyless
• Despite talking quite a lot about money / having lots of investments and also enough savings to never have to work again, he has let me somehow do all of the grocery shopping for every visit we've had. Majority of these have been me going to his city, which is nicer to hang out in as it's close to the countryside, so I'm spending money on train tickets AND about £80 at least every single time. This is really stacking up. In comparison, he knows that at 35 I'm still saving for a housing deposit and am going through an expensive egg freezing process. He is extremely frugal in general. The one time he paid of out food on a visit (because I lost my bank card) he asked me to settle up with him afterwards. He probably doesn't realise how much I've spent, as I've not communicated this and frankly find it awkward and quite rude that he wouldn't enquire himself or just say 'I'll pay for groceries next time'. Of all the things, strangely, this one makes me most angry and uncomfortable. I guess because we're from very different social classes and I would never want to be seen as a gold digger (he knows this, we've spoken about the fact that I've always dated people from a 'higher' class than me and that I've always gone at least halves or paid for more because I don't want to be seen as with them for their money)
• I find our conversation often turns to serious subjects - trauma, how messed up someone is, work stuff - and there is little lightness. He is a thoughtful and quite serious character, I think, but I also worry this is just a chemistry thing and he'd be better with someone else (which then makes me want to fix it)
• Because he's very open about wanting to settle down, it can sometimes make me feel like he is being spurred by that rather than wanting to be with ME. This could be my paranoia. But he doesn't often express how he actually feels about me, or why. He expresses his affection, I guess, through wanting to spend lots of time together, but even this feels a little intense / out of kilter with our level of emotional intimacy. Lockdown and living in different cities doesn't help - our dates are several days long, which I think I find a bit much
• He's commented a few times about how I have a higher sex drive than him / enjoy it more. This makes me feel self conscious about asking for sex. When I did the one time, last week, he was too tired. We didn't have enough physical closeness in my four day visit for me to feel particularly cared for or happy. In general I find him just quite distant. Sex feels a little transactional - like he'll do the minimum to make me orgasm, then he's like 'job done' and then gets his and it's over. There isn't enough kissing or general sensuality for me. I don't feel very connected with him
• I said I was uncomfy meeting his parents on our third ever date (it was a week long, and we'd been talking on zoom for a month before meeting, plus we actually know eachother from 13 years ago in a work context, but still). He said that was fine and they weren't coming, then the day before told me they actually were and I could 'hide in the house as they'd be in the garden and he'd just say I had lots of work to do' if I wanted. I felt intensely uncomfy with this setup so just met them anyway, but felt very awkward. He hadn't seen them all lockdown, and apparently it was just circumstantial that they visited that day, but I felt a little blindsided. I also met his sister and niece on the day, had been living with his other sister for a week and had spent the day with his best friends that week also. It all felt a little much

So - am I looking a gifthorse in the mouth? My anxiety levels are through the roof on this. For some reason I feel like I need to end it NOW even though I know there's loads of great things going for this guy. Any idea what might be going on?

Why don't you post him a letter? Instead of a text, write it down.

That would suit your want to end things smoothly and hopefully, without any animosity, no?

It would also give you the chance to convey your thoughts in a way you are happy and comfortable with, in a format where you can express yourself properly. text is a bit too instant and he may reply whilst you are still on and keep the conversation going.

You could always employ his litmus test and fart at future suitors?

I've had loads of relationships which I've let drag on far too long, and I've had a few I should never have let get going in the first place. Usually at some point there has been a little voice saying something isn't right, or an uncomfortable feeling with I have overruled in some way.

It took me a long time to realise those little voices and uncomfortable feelings needed to be listened to and acted upon, whether it was to go slower, take a step back or end it. Some action was required for me to be okay.

I think the fact you have said you would like to go slower with him, not talk every day, not meet parents etc but still gone alone with what he has wanted shows that perhaps you are aware when something is off but not quite at the point of reinforcing your boundaries regardless of what the other person pressures you to do.

The money thing was enough for me and I didn't read further
What an unattractive 'quality'

Ditch and move on

I'm not making light of anything you've said. I have really felt for you reading your posts but if I were you, I'd forget anything deep, meaningful at all and just tell him you have failed his litmus test.

Honestly, even if he was fantastic in bed etc, the farting would be a no from me and I am no princess! How revolting. Good luck.

@BuffaloMozzerella

I've had loads of relationships which I've let drag on far too long, and I've had a few I should never have let get going in the first place. Usually at some point there has been a little voice saying something isn't right, or an uncomfortable feeling with I have overruled in some way.

It took me a long time to realise those little voices and uncomfortable feelings needed to be listened to and acted upon, whether it was to go slower, take a step back or end it. Some action was required for me to be okay.

I think the fact you have said you would like to go slower with him, not talk every day, not meet parents etc but still gone alone with what he has wanted shows that perhaps you are aware when something is off but not quite at the point of reinforcing your boundaries regardless of what the other person pressures you to do.

Yeah exactly this. I wasn't completely on board at any point, but there was enough that was lovely about our interactions that I was prepared to wait a bit. I wish I didn't feel the need to validate my feelings on this forum, as it can get quite exhausting responding and clarifying and some of the responses can be a bit too much on the dramatic side sometimes. But on the other hand I really appreciate so many good insights and checking the general consensus. I only post when I'm basically sure anyway but its a good final push!

@ShesMadeATwatOfMePam

You could always employ his litmus test and fart at future suitors?

This sounds like a plan

I can't remember who said that theres only a small chance of a live birth with egg freezing, but I'd just like to say that there is if you get enough healthy eggs. Obviously that depends on your fertility stats etc. But I already have 11 from one round, and am doing 2 more. If I get 30, which is my hope, then my chances of one child is over 99.99% statistically, and i think 2 is something like 70%? Depends on egg health etc. Also, if I have any more than 30 I'll try to freeze some embryos which have a higher success rate when it comes to thawing also. So, if you're lucky enough to be able to afford it (three rounds isn't cheap) and you have good egg numbers, it is definitely a way to buy quite a lot of time. I could theoretically use them up till the age of 45 with current laws, but theyre pushing to eradicate the 10 year limit. Not that I think I want a child that late.

Just thought I'd share as I know there isn't much info out there. There's a calculator somewhere online that gives you your chances based on egg numbers and age which is where I got this info from.

@StartingAgain33 The success rate of pregnancy from egg freezing is the same as IVF . I have a friend who's about to do it and she's been researching.

He said that he wasn't surprised this was coming up, that it's come up in all of his relationships and that he has huge anxieties that come up at a certain stage that make it really difficult to relax and be light etc

He farted, quite a lot, openly, very early on. I was initially shocked and asked if he did this with every woman and he said it was a litmus test.

Honestly. So. Much. Bullshit. 'Oh I'm unsure and incapable. No I'm not, I'm upfront and challenging.' Blah.

Bullshit. And farting deliberately? Oh do fuck off you absolute drain of a man.

@FizzyGreenWater

He said that he wasn't surprised this was coming up, that it's come up in all of his relationships and that he has huge anxieties that come up at a certain stage that make it really difficult to relax and be light etc

He farted, quite a lot, openly, very early on. I was initially shocked and asked if he did this with every woman and he said it was a litmus test.

Honestly. So. Much. Bullshit. 'Oh I'm unsure and incapable. No I'm not, I'm upfront and challenging.' Blah.

Bullshit. And farting deliberately? Oh do fuck off you absolute drain of a man.

F*ing good point.

It's all very dramatic and black and white on here OP. He is probably just a flawed human bring like the rest of us. I take back my cluster b comments ... possibly. He ain't right for you though, so time to move on.

Frozen eggs are a very good thing. Hopefully youw will not need but if you do, they are there.

Seriously? You post this breathless screed that radiates your intense need and anxiety, and 500-odd women say: nup, run, he sounds awful, you don't even like him, listen to your instincts, RUN! etc.

You start to backtrack, sounding a little huffy you were misled by the women whose advice you sought and spoke up about money and maybe now have lost out on the relationship of the century with Mr Darcy/Max de Winter/Farting Scrooge McDuck.

You have no centre. But we are 'too dramatic' ! Many of us I am sure would give their eye teeth to have back the years or decades they wasted with some dull loon/nasty controller/porn addict/secret gambler/cruel underminer.

I think rather than rebounding into yet another super-intense too soon weird relationship with yet another unavailable man you should take an extended break from the dating scene (ie not just a month or so) and up your therapy sessions. Get some hobbies. Volunteer,

Also, rather than asking for help, effectively rejecting it, and saying you're an anxious overthinker, get yourself a stack of A4 notepads and journal this stuff out, and get yourself properly sorted before even thinking of bringing some poor child into your emotionally chaotic world.

Op,
Please focus on yourself. Honestly.

I genuinely feel so sorry for you.
This is such a long thread...

That such a woman would spend so much time agonising over such an utterly vulgar, uncouth, rough man??

Christ, ....he has made a point of breaking wind in front of you ..deliberately....dear Lord woman....have you NO boundaries 😳.

Detach, ....please. ....focus on working on yourself.

@SmileEachDay

*in the foot

Shooting

@ginghamtablecloths

Have skimmed through your thread. Always, always listen to your gut feelings - they protect you from possibly awful or dangerous situations. You say the atmosphere is stilted between you - do you want to live like that? No, you don't. Relationships with the right people don't feel like 'work' so it sounds like you're both struggling. You only struggle with the wrong people or situations - such as at work when you have to get on with people you are thrown together with in 'artificial' surroundings. Your home life should be relaxed. Don't let your age influence you. You are better off staying single than trying to make this' fit'.

The atmosphere is stilted because he's a fake and there's no genuine attachment on his side. He's going through the motions as a means to an end. I imagine a lot of what he says about himself is true. Boarding school can cause massive attachment issues. His repeated use of the word 'work' is also grooming the op to take so much crap from him and he will be able to chastise her because they have agreed that she will need to put in the hard work in order to help him understand love and get over his relationship anxiety.

@cbt944

Seriously? You post this breathless screed that radiates your intense need and anxiety, and 500-odd women say: nup, run, he sounds awful, you don't even like him, listen to your instincts, RUN! etc.

You start to backtrack, sounding a little huffy you were misled by the women whose advice you sought and spoke up about money and maybe now have lost out on the relationship of the century with Mr Darcy/Max de Winter/Farting Scrooge McDuck.

You have no centre. But we are 'too dramatic' ! Many of us I am sure would give their eye teeth to have back the years or decades they wasted with some dull loon/nasty controller/porn addict/secret gambler/cruel underminer.

I think rather than rebounding into yet another super-intense too soon weird relationship with yet another unavailable man you should take an extended break from the dating scene (ie not just a month or so) and up your therapy sessions. Get some hobbies. Volunteer,

Also, rather than asking for help, effectively rejecting it, and saying you're an anxious overthinker, get yourself a stack of A4 notepads and journal this stuff out, and get yourself properly sorted before even thinking of bringing some poor child into your emotionally chaotic world.

Harsh. But fair. Hit a few trigger points for me too

So many red flags

Be careful what you wish for.. you might just get it.. kids with a man who's mean, doesn't laugh, emotionally avoidant, low libido etc etc etc.Sounds like a horror story to me.

You're coming at this from a scarcity mindset... you're still young at 35, you're getting your eggs done, there are other men, and better you have the child yourself then with someone like this.

He sounds like Mr "he'll do because I want kids."

Not Mr Right.

I agree with a previous poster, he doesn't make you laugh. That's enough to quit now. that uneasy feeling will get worse, and I can only imagine how sad you will feel . I wasted almost 3 years with a man with whom I had similar feelings, but I so wanted it to work, wanted children, we were a good fit in lots of ways, but I had to second guess his feelings and wasn't sure of his commitment. Finally a friend was really honest and told me to stop wasting my time. Broke my heart to finish it, and still think of him, but I just have to look at a diary from the time to see how sad he made me.
I met someone else about 6 month later, he was so different, made me feel so loved and happy all the time, asked me to move in after 4 months, proposed after 7, we married a year later and had our first baby a year after. (Through ivf)
We have been married for 8 years and had our 2nd child 4 years ago. He still makes me laugh everyday, and thank god, as pregnancy , children, marriage, lockdown and just life is hard, and never having to doubt him or our relationship let me concentrate on getting though life! Don't settle on someone who doesn't make you feel secure and loved.

My friend dated a few huffy, buttoned-up and stingy middle-aged men who had never managed a long-term relationship. She even got engaged to one. As he got more comfortable, he revealed increasingly weird, unpleasant, dictatorial features. I’m afraid that’s what you’re in for, OP, if you don’t run. Divorced men are a better bet than someone who has never been close to anyone.

@cbt944 Harsh! It's a long thread but did you miss the part where the OP said she was going to end it? She did defend him for a while here, but the final chapter of this thread was she is ending it.

As for her volunteering, maybe you missed that- she's a young professional working all hours in the City so unlikely she has time for that kind of stuff.

@cbt944

Seriously? You post this breathless screed that radiates your intense need and anxiety, and 500-odd women say: nup, run, he sounds awful, you don't even like him, listen to your instincts, RUN! etc.

You start to backtrack, sounding a little huffy you were misled by the women whose advice you sought and spoke up about money and maybe now have lost out on the relationship of the century with Mr Darcy/Max de Winter/Farting Scrooge McDuck.

You have no centre. But we are 'too dramatic' ! Many of us I am sure would give their eye teeth to have back the years or decades they wasted with some dull loon/nasty controller/porn addict/secret gambler/cruel underminer.

I think rather than rebounding into yet another super-intense too soon weird relationship with yet another unavailable man you should take an extended break from the dating scene (ie not just a month or so) and up your therapy sessions. Get some hobbies. Volunteer,

Also, rather than asking for help, effectively rejecting it, and saying you're an anxious overthinker, get yourself a stack of A4 notepads and journal this stuff out, and get yourself properly sorted before even thinking of bringing some poor child into your emotionally chaotic world.

I take your point but I think this is a bit harsh. I haven't been disagreeing with peoples' points - I've clarified sometimes when people are taking the most extreme interpretation of what I could have said. At no point have I said I dont think I should break up with this man - the only point of contention has been how and when I do it. If I had 'no centre' I probably would have just followed what everyone said and dumped him by text instantly, but I want to do it my way. I've hardly been romanticising him. Perhaps it seems like I'm agonising over this more than I am because I keep responding. My mind is and has been made up from quite early on- really before I posted this, I just wanted to sense check.

I'm grateful to everyone for their comments even if I disagree, as I've said so many times on this thread, so if I've come across as 'huffy' that's totally intentional. From my perspective I think its just me being careful im being totally fair in how I portray the situation because its easy to polarise and life often isn't as black and white.

I do journal, and have been listening to myself throughout, hence this only being three months and not years as you say. So i feel ive made progress but I agree I should definitely steer away from anything intense and take a break. I have had long term healthy relationships with nice men before so I'm hoping these two were blips.

oh and I do have hobbies - loads of them- friends, and I volunteer when not in lockdown. Plus a career I really like etc. I'm not quite as centreless as perhaps you think I am.