AIBU to not trust my gut on man I'm dating?

[StartingAgain33]

I've been dating someone for three months. He's thoughtful, intelligent, successful, wants the same things in life as me and has made it clear that he sees a future with me (as much as someone can in such a short space of time). He also has literally built my dream life and is inviting me to be a part of it. But my gut keeps telling me to run away, and my therapist says that one of my key challenges is learning to tune into and act on my gut. I'm obsessing and would love your thoughts.

I worry I'm focusing on the negatives too much. I'm about to be 36, keen to have children and tired of being in a dating pool with guys that either don't have their shit together and so by default aren't ready for kids, or who are emotionally avoidant and not willing to put their cards on the table. This guy is neither of those things, and is up for doing the work of a real relationship. So I worry this is just my commitment issues - and potentially anxiety at having met someone so amazing - coming to the fore. What would you think?

Good things:

• He is open about wanting to settle down, feeling ready for children (a priority for me), about having done the necessary work to get to this point with a therapist (he went to boarding school from a young age and was very starved of love - so had a very avoidant dating pattern). He had one 18 month relationship which ended last year which he said went a long way to healing some of his commitment issues. However, he never loved her and they broke it off as they both felt (I think it was more that he felt) that what they had wasn't 'enough'. This was after they had moved in together to test the relationship (I kind of think you should know if you love someone before making that move, and wonder how much anxiety she was hiding?)
• He is very successful and leads a really great life. He's open and generous with this life - introducing me to friends and family, making fun trips happen all the time
• His future vision is the same as mine to an uncanny degree
• He's not afraid to challenge me and be honest about things, something which I find difficult (I have an anxious attachment pattern)
• Seems to have a realistic view of what to expect from relationships
• He's very good at going for what he wants and making things happen, which I find attractive
• Has great, very close long-term friendships - shows he is capable of longer term intimacy
• Is very up for 'doing the work' in a relationship
• Is kind when I open up to him about difficulties, and makes an effort to be there for me
• Is very consistent with communication, very much leading on this aspect of our relationship

Bad things:

• He has a very avoidant past (41 years old, has had one relationship in the past 20 or so years and many flings), and I think may have difficulty in general connecting to people. Even though I know this, I keep blame myself for what I feel is a lack of connection in our interactions (I'm not sure he feels this too, although I'm thinking about asking him as it's driving me crazy - like an elephant in the room)
• I just have a terrible gut feeling a lot of the time. When I'm with him, there's a sort of stilted atmosphere (I feel) and I don't feel able to relax. We hardly laugh. He's quiet quite a lot. He's been honest that he has abandonment issues and that he is hypervigilant to signs of rejection, which makes him quiet, so I've tried to have patience with it but I also feel hypervigilant around him. I've tried to spend lots of time with him to get over this and it's still there most of the time
• Talks about relationships as 'work' a lot - feels a little joyless
• Despite talking quite a lot about money / having lots of investments and also enough savings to never have to work again, he has let me somehow do all of the grocery shopping for every visit we've had. Majority of these have been me going to his city, which is nicer to hang out in as it's close to the countryside, so I'm spending money on train tickets AND about £80 at least every single time. This is really stacking up. In comparison, he knows that at 35 I'm still saving for a housing deposit and am going through an expensive egg freezing process. He is extremely frugal in general. The one time he paid of out food on a visit (because I lost my bank card) he asked me to settle up with him afterwards. He probably doesn't realise how much I've spent, as I've not communicated this and frankly find it awkward and quite rude that he wouldn't enquire himself or just say 'I'll pay for groceries next time'. Of all the things, strangely, this one makes me most angry and uncomfortable. I guess because we're from very different social classes and I would never want to be seen as a gold digger (he knows this, we've spoken about the fact that I've always dated people from a 'higher' class than me and that I've always gone at least halves or paid for more because I don't want to be seen as with them for their money)
• I find our conversation often turns to serious subjects - trauma, how messed up someone is, work stuff - and there is little lightness. He is a thoughtful and quite serious character, I think, but I also worry this is just a chemistry thing and he'd be better with someone else (which then makes me want to fix it)
• Because he's very open about wanting to settle down, it can sometimes make me feel like he is being spurred by that rather than wanting to be with ME. This could be my paranoia. But he doesn't often express how he actually feels about me, or why. He expresses his affection, I guess, through wanting to spend lots of time together, but even this feels a little intense / out of kilter with our level of emotional intimacy. Lockdown and living in different cities doesn't help - our dates are several days long, which I think I find a bit much
• He's commented a few times about how I have a higher sex drive than him / enjoy it more. This makes me feel self conscious about asking for sex. When I did the one time, last week, he was too tired. We didn't have enough physical closeness in my four day visit for me to feel particularly cared for or happy. In general I find him just quite distant. Sex feels a little transactional - like he'll do the minimum to make me orgasm, then he's like 'job done' and then gets his and it's over. There isn't enough kissing or general sensuality for me. I don't feel very connected with him
• I said I was uncomfy meeting his parents on our third ever date (it was a week long, and we'd been talking on zoom for a month before meeting, plus we actually know eachother from 13 years ago in a work context, but still). He said that was fine and they weren't coming, then the day before told me they actually were and I could 'hide in the house as they'd be in the garden and he'd just say I had lots of work to do' if I wanted. I felt intensely uncomfy with this setup so just met them anyway, but felt very awkward. He hadn't seen them all lockdown, and apparently it was just circumstantial that they visited that day, but I felt a little blindsided. I also met his sister and niece on the day, had been living with his other sister for a week and had spent the day with his best friends that week also. It all felt a little much

So - am I looking a gifthorse in the mouth? My anxiety levels are through the roof on this. For some reason I feel like I need to end it NOW even though I know there's loads of great things going for this guy. Any idea what might be going on?

*in the foot

I think you need to stop over-analysing relationships and just ask yourself:
Do I like this guy? Does he make me laugh? Do we have fun? Do we value each other? Can we relax together?

All the therapy language - avoidant, anxious attachment pattern, etc - jeez, how do you ever relax and just be? Don't you ever find yourself just doubled over, crying with laughter, because you and your bloke are simply having a good time?

Just to clarify, he did say he was sorry and that he hadn't realised and that he always likes being fair / this wasn't characteristic etc.

Just because he says it isn’t characteristic doesn’t mean it is true. Why would you take his word for it when his actions have spoken to his penny pinching character?

The fart thing is just plain weird. Litmus year of what? Why would he want to “test” his girlfriend in such a disgusting way?

I also don’t think you need to wait until after his birthday. He’s a grown man. If you do it today he’s got the weekend to get over it. I couldn’t be arsed with going through another phone call with him just because you’d rather his feelings were hurt after his birthday. There’s never a good time to end a relationship and I’d argue that if you really have made up your mind, it will be obvious to him on your Monday Birthday call.

Keeping it simple, and as you are hoping to find someone to have children with, what struck me from the OP is that differing attitudes to money and sex are high on the list of why marriages end. So it does feel like the writing is on the wall.

Just ditch him, block him, and quit with the all the angst! You’ve been with him for 3 months, he’s horrible, why drag it out any longer?

@AnneKipanki The OP's posts here make it clear these are two different men. She gave the location of the one in Feb- he was from the US. This new man is in Bristol. It's all explained in her posts.

Thanks @JinglingHellsBells .
Missed that .
I do apologise to everyone for this.

Reported my 2 posts .

Have skimmed through your thread. Always, always listen to your gut feelings - they protect you from possibly awful or dangerous situations. You say the atmosphere is stilted between you - do you want to live like that? No, you don't.

Relationships with the right people don't feel like 'work' so it sounds like you're both struggling. You only struggle with the wrong people or situations - such as at work when you have to get on with people you are thrown together with in 'artificial' surroundings. Your home life should be relaxed. Don't let your age influence you. You are better off staying single than trying to make this' fit'.

To the people that are asking about the other guy, yes these are different. And yes that got complicated in the last month but before that it was pretty light and nice and fun. I didn't overthink too much.. then he got weird, and it ended. And yes I really overthink when I'm anxious and know something is up hence previous post.

I've actually said several times to this guy we need to slow down / dont need to talk about the future so much / relationships aren't just work / I want to just have fun for a bit / I dont want to meet your parents yet / we don't have to talk on the phone every day etc etc. He pushed the heaviness, but also said it was due to lockdown and i thought there was some truth in it.

I agree I need some time between men. This actually came out of the blue- id worked with this man 13 years ago and we reconnected professionally and it quickly changed into something else. I think having loads of time on my hands and being totally alone in my flat for months contributed to the intensity.

I've actually said several times to this guy we need to slow down / dont need to talk about the future so much / relationships aren't just work / I want to just have fun for a bit / I dont want to meet your parents yet / we don't have to talk on the phone every day etc etc. He pushed the heaviness,

But you can put yourself in the driving seat.

Just because one person is pushing it doesn't mean you allow yourself to be pushed along.

It might be harder, but it is possible to desist and play it at your own speed.

You can't make someone into the person you want them to be.
He ticks various boxes, but not others by a mile.
Don't make the mistake again and again of getting involved with guys who have issues. They aren't a project for you to fix , or understand them , or provide free 'therapy' when they want to talk about them all the time.

Hanging on in the hope they will change or you can change them OR they will be perfect 'if only they can get their heads sorted' is not a good tactic .

Good luck with the phone call!

You like to think things through before you make a decision up and there's nothing wrong with that.
This time listen to your instinct and break off with this man right now.
Have you read your post through?do it,if you can,as if a stranger had written it,I think you would tell the stranger to get out now.
This man is saying what you want to hear.
For your own welfare and future happiness realize he is not for you and walk away.
Don't waste time hoping the square peg will fit into the round hole.It won't,despite what he tells you.

The money thing was enough for me. If you have worries now then they will continue to become bigger worries over time. Anyone can say they’re loaded but it doesn’t mean they are. What’s wrong with dating a few guys at the same time?

@JinglingHellsBells

I've actually said several times to this guy we need to slow down / dont need to talk about the future so much / relationships aren't just work / I want to just have fun for a bit / I dont want to meet your parents yet / we don't have to talk on the phone every day etc etc. He pushed the heaviness,

But you can put yourself in the driving seat.

Just because one person is pushing it doesn't mean you allow yourself to be pushed along.

It might be harder, but it is possible to desist and play it at your own speed.

You can't make someone into the person you want them to be.
He ticks various boxes, but not others by a mile.
Don't make the mistake again and again of getting involved with guys who have issues. They aren't a project for you to fix , or understand them , or provide free 'therapy' when they want to talk about them all the time.

Hanging on in the hope they will change or you can change them OR they will be perfect 'if only they can get their heads sorted' is not a good tactic .

Good luck with the phone call!

Yes, totally agreed. Now he has revealed the full extent of his issues I am happy to be leaving. Was the same with the other American guy - he seemed really normal at first, but I was going to end it whether he went to NY or not when I realised what was beneath the surface (I didnt mention these issues on the other post as I knew I'd get the 'run for the hills' responses and just wanted to deal with feelings of rejection from the split even though I knew it needed to happen

On not going out with men with issues, where do you yhink the line is though? I feel like people are rarely simple. For instance if a guy i was dating mentioned he'd been depressed in the past, but wasn't asking me for support or anything, would that be enough for a reconsideration? Or if a guy was a bit lost professionally and asked me for occasional thoughts (as has happened before because I've got my shit together this way) would that be too much?

What I liked about this guy was that he presented himself as confident, independent and having his shit together. Little did I know!

I’d honestly be more wary of anyone who had all their shit together in every area. I don’t know a single person who has (and if they claimed to have I’d assume they were lying or deluded).

For instance if a guy i was dating mentioned he'd been depressed in the past, but wasn't asking me for support or anything, would that be enough for a reconsideration? Or if a guy was a bit lost professionally and asked me for occasional thoughts (as has happened before because I've got my shit together this way) would that be too much?

For the former, I would be very weary and it would depend how quickly he mentioned it. I would be interested in what they did to handle it. But for me, this would be a bit of a red flag and I’d be on the alert for potential issues like him making me manage his emotions etc

For the latter, I’d crack on and be delighted in being solicited for advice (hence why I like Mumsnet )

Weary = wary

But can you honestly reconcile someone 'having their shit together' with the same person telling you that they are avoidant, that they have a fear of abandonment, that they see a relationship as work etc?

It sounds like he's given you a really confident delivery if his problems, and then laid them at your feet to fix.

Lol, yes true. V confident delivery and also it didn't come out at the same time. Plus he had excuses like concentrating on career and running busy startups etc.

Hmm. Now thinking I need to put blokes through some sort of mumsnet filter after a few dates I'm not sure I trust my radar! But I am working on it.

On not going out with men with issues, where do you think the line is though? I feel like people are rarely simple.

That's a hard one and I can only offer an opinion!

When you meet a man who is 'sorted' and has no real issues, you will feel it like a breath of fresh air.

I had a couple of long term relationships before meeting DH and I was shocked at how 'simple' he seemed with no issues. I'd been messed about by two men for years who were all over the place emotionally.

It's fine to talk about professional issues with a man, and be supportive, or even their 'issues' but it's all a matter of degree. If the relationship revolves around discussing their issues , that's falling into the role of free therapy.

Everyone has some 'baggage' - maybe crap parenting, or whatever , that they couldn't control. BUT as adults we have a responsibility to get 'sorted' either on our own or through professional help.

If someone has overwhelming issues, they are not ready or fit for a relationship, as it's not fair on the other person.

That's why- example- the advice is always to have some space between a divorce and meeting someone new, or being bereaved and meeting new people. It's to give time to process the emotions.

Everyone in a long term relationship supports the other person, with whatever- work, kids, health issues....it goes without saying.

But in the early days of dating it ought to be about fun, tearing clothes off and just really enjoying being with the other person.

If they make the conversations all about them and their issues, they aren't in a good place.

Also- and take it with a pinch of salt- CEOs and successful men- are often narcs or sociopaths.

@StartingAgain33

We need an app. That has a red flag alert. You could input all sorts of data and run a fancy algorithm to do something clever.

We would need a database of good qualities/behaviour/examples to start with it. They could be rated on these gradually and then when something strange comes up it can be cross referenced against the good stuff and you get one of three messages

1. Ah, let him off this time, he's only human

2. Hmm, not sure about this - keep an eye on this one

3. ALERT!ALERT! Run - Run - Run

Artificially intelligencitizing the crap out of our emotional world? If they want it, they can have it.

His last gf was a psychotherapist for goodness sake- if she wasn't able to 'fix' him, you don't stand a chance OP. Do the kind thing and end it. Now.

Yes. And a psychotherapist who was paid £3k a day to evaluate people for some sort of private equity firm at that- many of whom would have been similar characters to him i guess. V v odd

Sorry OP, but i'm with everyone else. This isn't the man for you and you need to end it now. So many red flags!!!

He actually said you could "settle up with him later" when he bought groceries?? Did you?? That and the general gut feel that things are not right would've me heading for the hills I'm afraid.

Not sure I believe the £3k per day for psychotherapy/ counselling/ coaching whatever even in the City. Doesn't stack up with day rates for other professions. £1K per day maybe- but £3K?