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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think my 3 year old son should be able to dress as Elsa?

393 replies

stealthbanana · 19/07/2020 00:28

My husband and I have just had an enormous fight about this...

My 3.5 year old DS loves Frozen, and has asked for me to buy him (a) a frozen dress up (ie an Elsa or anna costume) and (b) some
“Elsa and anna shoes” (a pair of sneakers one of his nursery classmates has, white with pics of elsa and anna on it).

I’ve just talked to DH about it and his response ha surprised me - he’s said he’s absolutely opposed to my son having an Elsa dress as “it’s opening up his gender identity”. We have a 1 year old daughter and I have said that I don’t think he would be as annoyed if she dresses up as eg fireman Sam and he said that “princesses are different I don’t think that being a fireman is a bad thing”. I asked about the shoes and he said he would be ok if they were “boys shoes”. I had to stop the conversation as was worried it would become a proper argument - he was very angry.

AIBU to think that it’s a total non big deal that a 3 year old wants to dress up as a princess and has nothing to do with their sexuality or gender identity as an adult?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
eausolovely · 19/07/2020 21:00

My Bob the builder outfit was the absolute dogs bollocks, didn't mean I wanted to be a man I just loved it. Also exclusively wanted to play with diggers and trucks and I turned out just fine

SleepingStandingUp · 19/07/2020 21:09

Every woman I know in my community is very happy with our traditional lifestyle and if anyone wasn’t they can leave it’s not a prison but it isn't a free choice if the only way you can have a career as a woman is by leaving behind all your family. Yeah course you can go to uni, just don't come back or ask for help.

TooTrueToBeGood · 19/07/2020 21:20

It would appear flouncing is a cultural thing too. Or maybe Somebody's husband told her she'd used up her screen time allowance for the day and it was time for her to get back to skivvying.

SnackSizeRaisin · 19/07/2020 22:37

No one is going to be mean to a 3 year old wearing a dress. It's normal and most of them do it. That's like saying people might pick on a 2 year old with a nappy or a 1 year old in a baby grow. It gets less acceptable once they are older.

The real reason some people don't like the idea of a boy in a dress is that boys are too good for girls' things. It's nothing to do with gender roles, otherwise the same people wouldn't want their daughter wearing say a football kit. Like a pp said, it's so unusual for a lead character to be played by a girl (and for there to be no parallel male character) that this is a new problem. Ever looked at picture books for children and noticed how few have a female main character?

Irelate · 19/07/2020 22:52

@derxa

I wouldn't be buying Elsa dresses for either a boy or a girl. Utter tat and a waste of money
This^
SueEllenMishke · 19/07/2020 22:56

ori38 I've spent my entire career helping people overcome gender stereotypes so I find your husband's comments pretty frustrating tbh.
A perspective that so overtly supports the patriarchy is pretty abhorrent to me.

SueEllenMishke · 19/07/2020 23:01

Youbigdosser a culture that ensures that women 'know their place' and are seen to only be valued for their cooking and cleaning skills is not a culture worthy of respect.

Keewee27 · 19/07/2020 23:37

Ds1 was 3 or 4 when the first Frozen movie came out. He and his friends at preschool all wanted to dress up as Elsa, both boys and girls. The preschool had to buy more Elsa dresses! Ds1 is now 8 and football mad. Refused to watch Frozen 2 on Disney today as it was 'boring'.

Ds2 is almost 6 and loved both Trolls movies. He hasn't wanted to dress up but has lots of the figures and always wants Poppy first when we buy the surprise bags.
He also loves Batman and Lego ninjago. He wants to be a Power Ranger when he grows up!

OP, there is nothing wrong with your son wanting to dress up as a character from a movie he likes. Your Dh should be pleased that your ds respects a female character so much!

MangoFeverDream · 20/07/2020 05:37

The real reason some people don't like the idea of a boy in a dress is that boys are too good for girls' things

I don’t believe this for a second. In a much more conservative society, it was not socially acceptable for girls to engage in ‘boy-like’ behaviours. That wasn’t because people didn’t value ‘male’ things, they just didn’t value it in girls.

While we’ve broken these barriers for girls, we really haven’t been able to do the same for boys.

CaptainMyCaptain · 20/07/2020 07:44

I don’t believe this for a second. In a much more conservative society, it was not socially acceptable for girls to engage in ‘boy-like’ behaviours. That wasn’t because people didn’t value ‘male’ things, they just didn’t value it in girls
Compare the words 'tomboy' (not normal behaviour but cute) and 'cissy' (not acceptable). This is how things were seen in the past and, unfortunately, still are with some people who see it as more acceptable for a girl to be like a boy than vice versa.

Surviving1 · 20/07/2020 11:49

@Crackerofdoom;
"But surely as parents our job is to deal with the kids who are being nasty and teasing? They are the problem, not the child dressing up.

The culture where we ask the victims of bullying what they could have done to have caused or prevented it is something we ingrain into our kids and translates into scenarios like asking "what was she wearing" at rape trials. Or "did she wind him up" in domestic violence deaths.

Society needs to change and it won't happen if every time a child wants to step out of their lane, we panic and push them back into it."
_

Crackerofdoom, so much of me agrees with you, but my son was bullied and beaten up at school in first year seniors. It happened because he was different. My partner and I I had encouraged him to express that difference.

It finally stopped after a couple of months because another tougher boy beat up the bully. My son's bully burst into tears and happily he lost all credibility as a bully.

I know it sounds like this was in the 1950s but it was about 10 years ago in a good mixed state school.

okaasan · 21/07/2020 08:54

It's fine if he does it now, it's still fine if he does it when he's 9 (no one's into dressing up as elsa at 9 anyway but being a girl or a boy shouldn't come into it), it's dressing up. It says nothing about him except he likes dressing up. And if later on he wants to dress up to express his personality, not just because he likes to wear different things for his play then that's fine too. Parents are there to reinforce kids' confidence and tell them they're loved, not give them anxiety about the sort of crap they'll find elsewhere in society

OnceUponAPotato · 22/07/2020 01:58

I do get the worry that allowing your boy to wear dresses (etc) could lead to them being bullied, it's natural to want to protect them. But I have two big problems with it. First - where do you draw the line? If you've taught them 'conform to fit in' what happens if they turn out to be gay and are bullied for it? Or if they're bullied for anything, and frankly bullies don't really care what they're bullying about. And secondly (this is the one which really worries me) if we teach "don't be different because you'll be bullied for it" we are simultaneously teaching "it's ok to bully other boys for being different". Do people not worry that they're creating bullies with this attitude?

Shmurf · 22/07/2020 02:59

I don't think I'd really like it if I had a son, but can't quite quantify why. Don't have an issue with gay people or effeminate men etc, but I do like gender roles in some way. I don't like that our society often seems to be trying to smudge the line between male/female. Again, I don't really know why I feel this way.

Shmurf · 22/07/2020 03:14

I think men/women often have very different views on this type of area.

Women often seem to vocally be against toxic masculinity, whilst men (who have to navigate it) are more concerned with not being the one who ends up getting walked over by not maintaining their place in the hierarchy.

Most guys have no issue with gay men who knowingly choose to be effeminate, but want to ensure that their own sons don't get picked on. I've interestingly seen a similar dynamic play out with two of my friend's sons. One was told by his father "don't ever be a bully, but if somebody hits you, hit them back." The other was told to always walk away and that violence was never the answer. The second philosophy seems the 'right' one, but still the first boy got on ok at school whilst the second was picked on relentlessly as he was seen as an easy target.

alexdgr8 · 22/07/2020 03:19

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-8386443/Supportive-father-wears-matching-costume-son-wanted-dress-Elsa-Frozen.html

tell your husband you are running off to australia to live in a traditional polygamous set up with this, your kind of man....

Hamm87 · 22/07/2020 03:24

Sorry but I wouldn't buy my son a dress i would make him one ahhahah then beats any issues

Ladida01 · 22/07/2020 03:27

If your son wants too he should be able to dress up as Elsa. My son took wanted to dress up like his little sister in fairy wings and a tutu. So we got his one and he was so excited. So go for it.

Original poster
stealthbanana · 22/07/2020 07:34

Thanks for all your views. I haven’t spoken to DH again about it, but I definitely will.

For those who are saying he’ll be bullied, I was anticipating this to be a dress up around the house sort of thing. He’s not allowed to wear any of his dress ups out of the house so this is not a big issue.

OP posts:
JassyRadlett · 22/07/2020 07:45

I don't think I'd really like it if I had a son, but can't quite quantify why. Don't have an issue with gay people or effeminate men etc, but I do like gender roles in some way. I don't like that our society often seems to be trying to smudge the line between male/female. Again, I don't really know why I feel this way.

So by the same token, you’d be against a girl dressing up in a costume based on a male character?

ThreeImaginaryBoys · 22/07/2020 08:19

Reception teacher here. This is one of the most depressing threads I've read for months.

OP, your husband is wrong, and probably knows he is, somewhere deep down. That's likely to make him dig his heels in even more, unfortunately. Putting a boy in a dress is no more likely to 'open up his gender identity' than putting him in a panda outfit is likely to 'open up his animal identity'. Absolute twaddle.

A child is a child. Whether they are a male child, female child, black child, able-bodied child, dyslexic child, blond child, short child, tall child ... I could go on. Any child should benefit from an inclusive environment. Part of that involves re-thinking outdated and irrelevant attitudes to sex and gender. A previous poster mentioned knowing 'which toys are for girls and which are for boys'. There is no such thing, and reinforcing that belief is damaging for everyone.

Those of you saying that they will automatically get bullied at school are wrong. They will get more support at school to play how they want to play (divisive, exclusionary and sexist attitudes are actively challenged by teachers) than in a home where they are reinforced.

This whole thread has echoes of 'women can't wear trousers, that's just how it is ... women can't vote, that's just how it's always been ... men can't be gay, that's how it's supposed to be'. Just tragic.

I'm still gobsmacked that anyone would refer to a 3 year-old in a costume as 'cross-dressing'.

SimonJT · 22/07/2020 08:22

@Shmurf Most guys have no issue with gay men who knowingly choose to be effeminate

Wtf? So you think gay people pop to the shops and choose a personality?

okaasan · 22/07/2020 08:40

@ThreeImaginaryBoys

Reception teacher here. This is one of the most depressing threads I've read for months.

OP, your husband is wrong, and probably knows he is, somewhere deep down. That's likely to make him dig his heels in even more, unfortunately. Putting a boy in a dress is no more likely to 'open up his gender identity' than putting him in a panda outfit is likely to 'open up his animal identity'. Absolute twaddle.

A child is a child. Whether they are a male child, female child, black child, able-bodied child, dyslexic child, blond child, short child, tall child ... I could go on. Any child should benefit from an inclusive environment. Part of that involves re-thinking outdated and irrelevant attitudes to sex and gender. A previous poster mentioned knowing 'which toys are for girls and which are for boys'. There is no such thing, and reinforcing that belief is damaging for everyone.

Those of you saying that they will automatically get bullied at school are wrong. They will get more support at school to play how they want to play (divisive, exclusionary and sexist attitudes are actively challenged by teachers) than in a home where they are reinforced.

This whole thread has echoes of 'women can't wear trousers, that's just how it is ... women can't vote, that's just how it's always been ... men can't be gay, that's how it's supposed to be'. Just tragic.

I'm still gobsmacked that anyone would refer to a 3 year-old in a costume as 'cross-dressing'.

Yes all this ☝️☝️☝️
SueEllenMishke · 22/07/2020 09:27

@Shmurf

I don't think I'd really like it if I had a son, but can't quite quantify why. Don't have an issue with gay people or effeminate men etc, but I do like gender roles in some way. I don't like that our society often seems to be trying to smudge the line between male/female. Again, I don't really know why I feel this way.
How do you feel about women doing traditionally male jobs and vice versa?

Gender roles are a societal construct and it's depressing to see how many people still perpetuate them instead of challenging them.

pickledmybrain · 22/07/2020 09:30

I think what that poster meant simon is that it is one thing to be aware of social nuances and knowingly break them, but 3 yos often aren’t.