To think my 3 year old son should be able to dress as Elsa?

[stealthbanana]

My husband and I have just had an enormous fight about this...

My 3.5 year old DS loves Frozen, and has asked for me to buy him (a) a frozen dress up (ie an Elsa or anna costume) and (b) some
“Elsa and anna shoes” (a pair of sneakers one of his nursery classmates has, white with pics of elsa and anna on it).

I’ve just talked to DH about it and his response ha surprised me - he’s said he’s absolutely opposed to my son having an Elsa dress as “it’s opening up his gender identity”. We have a 1 year old daughter and I have said that I don’t think he would be as annoyed if she dresses up as eg fireman Sam and he said that “princesses are different I don’t think that being a fireman is a bad thing”. I asked about the shoes and he said he would be ok if they were “boys shoes”. I had to stop the conversation as was worried it would become a proper argument - he was very angry.

AIBU to think that it’s a total non big deal that a 3 year old wants to dress up as a princess and has nothing to do with their sexuality or gender identity as an adult?

Ask your son - in age appropriate way - what he thinks wearing a dress means it'll mean he's Elsa , and why he likes the idea. because she's cool /fun /brave.

Buy it, it will be cast aside in favour of some plastic before the week is over.
DS's Princess Poppy dress is still popular a year on...

DS will tell you he likes to dress as a Owlette cos she has wings, as Luna girl because she flies to the moon, as Princess Poppy because she's funny. He dresses as Catboy because he runs fast, Timmy the Sheep becasue he's funny and Romeo because he's going to take over the world

I would suggest a dressing up box with both genders clothing plus accessories (who doesn't like a feather boa) but I wouldn't buy a Disney princess dress myself (or a fireman Sam outfit). Nor would I buy branded shoes.

It's not about gender identity with me, it's about the consumerism.

Ask a 3 year old on their opinion of a Disney character and sprinkle the conversation with a little child centred chat on gender neutrality?

You must have a lot of time on your hands.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot today, because if I’m totally honest and since it’s the internet I will be - my initial response to the idea of a boy in a Frozen dress was disgust. I’m not proud of that and I recognise how stupid it probably is but that was the initial reaction.

I think the reason for that is that traditionally male clothing tends to be practical while women’s is decorative. Obviously there are exceptions to this but as a rule that’s how it goes. And that’s why personally I don’t like schools pushing girls to wear pinafores and skirts with t bar shoes and then the girls don’t play physical games - but that’s a different rant!

So when a male dresses as a female - as in a dress and heels or whatever - this is usually linked to sexual fetishes of some sort. And before everyone leaps on that and wilfully misunderstands I am NOT saying that’s the case with this child, I’m saying that’s why I think boys in dresses aren’t responded to positively.

Ask your son - in age appropriate way - what he thinks wearing a dress means , and why he likes the idea

This ignores the fundamental that we’re not talking about a dress, in the sense of an everyday piece of clothing as an alternative to eg shorts. It’s a costume.

Asking a kid who wants to dress up as Elsa why he wants to dress like a girl is like asking a kid dressed in a Lycra Superman all-in-one why he wants to dress like a figureskater, or a kid dressed as Marshall what he feels dressing like a dog means, and why he likes it.

It’s not clothes. It’s costume. Pretend. Make-believe. They like it because they’re playing, and using their imaginations means they can be anything or anyone without wanting to be that thing in real life.

This ignores the fundamental that we’re not talking about a dress, in the sense of an everyday piece of clothing as an alternative to eg shorts. It’s a costume.

Yes, exactly - it's probably because Elsa can make ice castles and snowmen, not because she's got a vagina!

@SueEllenMishke yes this does include things like chores etc
I know most people on here will disagree but this is my lifestyle where woman be woman and men be men

[quote Youbigdosser]@SueEllenMishke yes this does include things like chores etc
I know most people on here will disagree but this is my lifestyle where woman be woman and men be men[/quote]
So....a man doesn’t do chores?

Better not tell my dh who does all the cooking and cleaning

What about men who live alone? Do they live in shit holes and order in everyday?

[quote Youbigdosser]@SueEllenMishke yes this does include things like chores etc
I know most people on here will disagree but this is my lifestyle where woman be woman and men be men[/quote]
We’re both men, how do you suggest the ‘woman’ chores get done in the flat?

[quote Youbigdosser]@SueEllenMishke yes this does include things like chores etc
I know most people on here will disagree but this is my lifestyle where woman be woman and men be men[/quote]
Woman are women and men are men in this house too, @Youbigdosser, I agree.

Thankfully our vacuum cleaner isn't operated by a vagina so DH uses it just fine and we found a hammer that worked without a penis so I can do DIY. I buy superhero and princess dresses without the specialised fittings for breasts and penis' too so thst helps DS be whichever cool person he wants.

What will you do if your DS revels and going into paediatric nursing or become a sahp?

As I’ve said it’s different cultures.
No boys in my family have ever been expected to clean or cook. And I would Not be expected to go out and fix the fence or build a wall.
Respect all cultures.

We’re both men, how do you suggest the ‘woman’ chores get done in the flat?

So progressive of you Youbig

We’re both men, how do you suggest the ‘woman’ chores get done in the flat?

Get a hold lamé purse. Set a timer, pass the bag between you. Whoever is holding it when the timer goes off is a women.

*gold ffs

YANBU.

Boys can wear dresses if they like they’re still boys.

@SmileEachDay

We’re both men, how do you suggest the ‘woman’ chores get done in the flat?

Get a hold lamé purse. Set a timer, pass the bag between you. Whoever is holding it when the timer goes off is a women.

Love it

Respect all cultures.

Why should anyone respect misogynistic cultures?

He's three. It's playing. Nothing more to read into it than that. Interesting to see the flip side of this kind of thing. Gender identity my a*. Is it messing with his species identity if he dresses as Simba?

@LaurieMarlow

Respect all cultures.

Why should anyone respect misogynistic cultures?

Exactly, culture in my view should only be respected when it doesn’t cause or encourage harm.

@LaurieMarlow

Respect all cultures.

Why should anyone respect misogynistic cultures?

Exactly

Do you respect African cultures when they preform FGM on their girls?

It doesn’t cause harm to teach girls how to cook and clean.
Or Teach boys a trade they can make their living from.
I am very happy how I am.

• oubigdosser

It doesn’t cause harm to teach girls how to cook and clean

It sure as hell causes harm to teach them that’s all they can do. And that they are the only sex who should do those things.

I am very happy how I am.

You may be. What about all the women you and your culture are raising as second class citizens?

Are you Gypsy culture by any chance?

My dh is Romany gypsy..and he still pitches in does house work