To think my friend is damaging her DD?

[wineandfajitas]

My friend has a 7 year old DD, she is a single mum and we are very close, we see each other every day so I spend a lot of time with her and her DD.

They seem to have a really, for lack of a better word, banterish relationship. They are always bantering with each other and it's just nothing I've ever seen before.

My friend does discipline her DD if necessary and she seems to respect her. She is a good mum in all other ways but it's just this constant banter. I find it strange.

Her DD is only 7 and already very sarcastic and uses insults as humour. They seem to just take the piss out of each other and play fight for fun. She does kiss and hug her daughter and tell her she loves her but 70 percent of their relationship is just constant banter as if they're friends.

AIBU to think this may affect her DD in later life and that it isn't normal?

@wineandfajitas

Harmful as if she continues using insults as humour then how else will she communicate in life? Not everyone would understand her humour and may be offended. Granted she does not speak like that with me. She is usually quite quiet with me and polite.

Then she clearly understands the relevant boundaries even at this young age. I really can't see the problem, it sounds like they have a great relationship.

This sounds a bit like my relationship with my oldest daughter, I'm a very sarcastic person and I do insult people as a joke (only if they can take it) and she's very similar to me. I know lots of people who have the same type of personality, it's not common for children but there's nothing harmful about it. They sound like they have a good relationship where her DD is comfortable enough to joke with her a lot, if she's happy, well looked after and disciplined when she needs to be I don't see the problem

Your post is oozing judgment and you don't even have children. It's none of your business and your opinion really doesn't matter. It sounds like they have a great relationship.

So you have no children yet you are judging your friend who does as she’s not parenting how you imagine you would parent your imaginary children LOL. Sound like they have a great relationship to me, they have fun together, nothing wrong with that.

As for not rushing to hold your child after they’ve fallen over etc did your parents never say “you’ll live” if you fell over and were clearly fine? Nothing worse than a clingy child who makes drama out of every scrape because their parents pander.

Mind your business. Riles me when observers think they know better than participants. They have a relationship that works. it may be different to what you are used to but it does not make it wrong.

She's quite tough love, yes she cuddles, kisses, says I love you etc but for example, if we're at the park and her DD is moaning about another child then rather than intervene her mum will just say "play with someone else" or "sort it out yourself". Or if her DD falls and is crying, my friend just says, "shake it off, you're fine" rather than give her a cuddle unless she has really hurt herself or banged her head etc.

Op - seriously, you need to stop judging your friend. She sounds like a great mum - good relationship with her DC: loving and fun but also teaching them important life skills like resilience and how to interact with others. At this age, I'd be far more concerned if the mum was stepping in every time the child has an issue with another child at the playground. And kids definitely need to toughen up and learn how to cope with minor bumps and scratches.

The joking sounds fine to me too. Banter, with appropriate tone of voice etc, is perfectly normal and also healthy. Children need to learn the difference between a joking tone and a serious tone and she's clearly doing a good job on that.

I have literally NO idea why you think this friend is 'damaging' her daughter. Nor do I have any idea what qualifies you to pass such ridiculous judgement on her. You are no friend to her, what a shame she doesn't realise that.

The child is 7; of course the banter is poo-head than some sophisticated play on words referencing a classic book.

As she grows up the banter will become more sophisticated. Doubtless a lot of it will go over others' heads, but that's not really a concern, is it?

Wow. I can't even see this as an issue... But this is my house.

3yo: can I have a drink
Me: no
3yo: why
Me: cause you stink like poop
Both: laughing

Then she gets her drink 🤷

'Oh Mater, dearest Mater. I do believe you have a cranium of excrement'
'Yes, child. That is correct. You are similarly afflicted'

Will that do?

If it's fine to call your mum these names then why isn't it fine to call your friends these names also?

Surely it is fine? Most friendships involve gentle teasing don't they? I'm amazed at how many people are so humorless that they'd even consider this an issue! My DC are still preschoolers but my four year old has recently started to grasp jokes/sarcasm and I'm loving it. Finally can have a bit of fun interaction with her

When you have your own kids OP, you'll soon realise that you're not doing them any favours if you make a big deal out of every small fall. You have to teach them to get up and carry on. Your friend will have learned to make a snap judgement to assess whether her child is genuinely hurt or not before speaking to her.

You remind me of my SIL who doesn't have children yet shares her numerous views about how children should be parented. I have to agree with the PP who said you're not her friend at all.

It sounds like the relationship I have with my DC. We've always had a fun dynamic from day one and it hasn't harmed them! They're 25, 22 and 10 now. Lots of joking and banter, lots of love and cuddles. Can't really see why you'd have an issue with how someone else chooses to parent unless they're in actual danger/neglect/abuse which doesn't seem to be the case here from what you've said.

Some really vile and unpleasant comments here. So what is the OP doesn't have any children yet, she can still have an opinion on what she sees. I think her questions are coming from a place of concern and she has been reassured by a lot of people that is all fine.

@wineandfajitas if this thread of random people being rude to you is all a bit too much you can always step away from the thread and can even ask for it to be deleted if you think it is outing.

Good luck.

Granted she does not speak like that with me. She is usually quite quiet with me and polite.

That indicates she knows not to use that style of humour or banter with others which is the thing you said you were concerned about potentially arising in the future. So nothing to see here, move on.

Sounds very similar to how my 6yo and I go on - we mess about and play wrestle, and he will call me stinky, slimy, a bumhead and various other erudite insults (and vice versa), and he generally never misses a chance to do utterly grim things like sneaking up and licking my ear . But he's also very well-behaved in all ways that matter, and his teacher described him in his end of year report as kind, thoughtful and 'unfailingly polite'. He has his moments of being an utter pain, but generally he's a lovely child. He has ASD so doesn't always read social cues that well, but I can guarantee if you suggested to him that he might call an adult visitor 'stinky', or sneak up on his teacher and lick her just because he sometimes does those things with me, he'd think you'd lost the plot. He's also perfectly capable of recognising when I'm trying to talk seriously about something, or giving him a telling off, and behaves appropriately then too. I think small children have a lot.more sense and social flexibility than most people give them credit for.

On a slightly different note, I grew up with a DM who couldn't STAND being teased. Any attempts to banter with her without her being in full control of the conversation tended to result in withdrawal and sulking over the assault on her dignity. As a teenager I really envied my friends who could gently rib their parents - I think it's a really important step on the path to having a more equal and mutually respectful relationship with your parents and getting to know them as people like you have to get to know any other friend, and the seeds of that need to be planted in early childhood. I hope that's where DS and I will eventually end up.

Sounds like her daughter has quite advanced communication skills. She can understand (and communicate) intention through tone, timing and other non verbal cues (e.g. using and understanding sarcasm and not taking everything literally) and is able to adjust her speech to the audience (e.g. the way she speaks differently to you than she does to her mum).

I don’t see how this is going to harm her later in life.More likely to leave her with a better understanding of people’s meaning and intent and a greater ability to fit in with a wide range of people than bringing her up to think there is only one acceptable way of communicating with people.

I think it could be damaging as in the child might see her as a friend than a parent and sometimes parents when they don't have a relationship can rely on their kids too much for the bonding they'd usually get from a partner.

When you friend gets a partner it may be difficult too.

Aside from being single i wouldn't say it necessarily damaging the way they behave though.

I’m beginning to wonder if you know me though I have more kids and they’re older than 7, but your friend sounds like me and the way my children and I communicate. There is much piss taking, I don’t wrap them up in cotton wool.
They are resilient, strong, respectful and humorous kids. They’ve never had a bad word said about their manners and respect at school (age between 18 and 13) they’ve never had a detention, the frequently have prizes for no bad behaviour points all year at school. My daughter who just left had a prize for NEVER having a single bad behaviour point in 7 years at the school. But she has a banter-y jokey relationship with many teachers, but also knows the teachers it doesn’t work with.
My 2 kids with autism also understand the context where this works and where it doesn’t.
So I may have fucked them up in some way, but that ain’t the one.

@wineandfajitas

I guess I just feel that she treats her DD older than she is. She's quite tough love, yes she cuddles, kisses, says I love you etc but for example, if we're at the park and her DD is moaning about another child then rather than intervene her mum will just say "play with someone else" or "sort it out yourself". Or if her DD falls and is crying, my friend just says, "shake it off, you're fine" rather than give her a cuddle unless she has really hurt herself or banged her head etc.

Just not what I would do but as someone said, not my circus.

In the nicest way possible you can tell you don’t have any kids from the post. The reason a parent doesn’t always get involved with other kids squabbles is because they usually moan about another child but then go and play with that child again 10 mins later As a parent you will look foolish to get involved unless it’s something serious.

With friends like you OP, who needs enemies?
It sounds like your friend is a kind, balanced mother with a lovely relationship with her daughter. You, however, are on the internet, judging her and it feels like, trying to get a number of random people to agree that she's 'harming' her child?

We all banter a lot here and use sarcasm a lot. But are living and kind and have close relationships, especially between Ds1 and Ds2 who tease each other a lot.

I can't see the problem. You seen over anxious and 'damaging'?

I haven’t RTFT because yet again the first couple of pages have made me question why I’m even on MN. Yes you asked for opinions, but I don’t understand why people have to give their opinions with a side helping of venom. Maybe you’ve touched a nerve because what you’re describing is something these other posters do themselves.

I actually agree with you, OP. Maybe it’s old fashioned but parents should set an example, and there are other ways of having a laugh than insulting eachother (a very low form of humour in any context). As an ex-teacher I’ve found that this can translate to an over-familiarity with other adults or ‘authority figures’ (for want of a better word), and that this can affect motivation and productivity. For example: if a student sees a teacher on the ‘same level’ as them, someone to have ‘banter’ with, then they don’t take the teacher seriously. This means that (in the worst case scenario) they don’t follow instructions if they don’t feel like it, don’t care about the consequences of not doing their homework, argue back when checked on a certain aspect of their behaviour etc.

I think the world needs a certain degree of hierarchy (parents and kids, teachers and kids, employers and employees etc.), and that not having boundaries can actually be damaging. How will kids who talk to their parents on the same level as their peers ever learn a respectful and appropriate way of operating in the real world?

My post is going to be the complete opposite of the one above. But that's the purpose of this site - diverse opinions!

Children learn through play. Play is the fundamental building blocks of everything they will need in later life. They'll learn relationships of every kind - how to build a relationship with a colleague Vs an employer Vs an employee. They'll learn trusted spaces with family and some friends Vs acquaintances.

By treating all relationships the same - or interfering in the play dynamics of 7 year olds - you will be damaging that development. Children are not born perfect they have to learn everything including socialisation.

If the 7yr old enjoys that banter, then when she's older she'll seek out people that have that sense of humour - and that will be 'her people'. And that will be some of the most important relationships she'll have.

She sounds like she’s doing a great job and she and her daughter have a strong, loving, relationship full of humour and warmth.