*Trigger Warning* My MIL is a rape apologiser

[Gurtcha]

Just that really. Yesterday afternoon she was talking about her best friend’s (of 30+ years) DD, MIL’s god daughter. Unfortunately, MILBF’s DD was attacked and seriously sexually assaulted last weekend. Whilst telling us everything that she knew about the incident (thats something else - it was really not her place to tell all), she added that she wasn’t surprised it happened considering the way her god daughter dresses when out of an evening.

Mine and DHs jaw hit the floor, DH started stammering and I’m ashamed to say I hit the roof. I can usually tune out her mindless ignorance on most things but this time she got under my skin. I told her it was disgusting that she would defend an abuser of someone she claims to care about, that her attitudes were responsible for the suicides of victims that never get justice and that she needs to educate herself as she is clearly in the privileged position of being a woman that has never had to experience sexual abuse. I upped and left at that point. I did raise my voice, it’s true. I was totally disgusted and I still feel sick whenever I think about it. I’ve not spoken to her since, neither has DH. He’s seething.

The thing is, we have three young DDs 12, 8 and 3. AIBU to never want them to spend enough time with her for her views to become known to them? She can barely keep her opinions to herself at the best of times and I’m so scared that one day, my DDs will feel they have a good enough relationship with her to confide in her at a later date, if god forbid, anything should happen to them.

Well done. Keep her as far away from your girls as possible - she sounds dangerous 🤮

I was hoping you’d come back @FizzyGreenWater. You’re often full of excellent advice and you’re completely right of course. Between now and next Sunday I will be practicing my hard stare

@SeagoingSexpot and to all of us who have not only had to experience a sexual assault but have to read comments from people on here who don't have the faintest idea and think it is ok to be 'surprised' someone is sexually assaulted/attacked/raped because of what they were wearing.... some in society haven't moved forward at all

Some of the people on this thread are really awful and it’s seriously depressing.

Twisting words around, arguing for the sake of it. Trying to win an argument when we really all know deep down that women don’t get raped because of what they wear.

As someone said upthread, it’s the eternal myth that bad things don’t happen to good people. That’s why it’s called victim blaming.

@xingming, @saraclara and @Pragmatic411y are all part of the problem and they just can't see it. Anyone who mitigates a crime by blaming the victim helps to create a climate where the victim and the crime is taken less seriously. It allows these ridiculous defences where the defence can use the fact that the woman at some point has has sex, or been depressed or had a couple of drinks or wore a revealing outfit.

Imagine that defence being used if a man was raped by another man. Oh he deserved it because he was wearing tight trousers, had had a couple of beers, has had sex before with other people, was on anxiety meds etc. It just wouldn't happen and it demonstrates that it is not about rapists being convinced a woman wanted to have sex with them but about considering a woman who doesn't meet the standards of the critic (however arbitrary those standards are) is more responsible than the rapist for her rape.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-53243586/the-trial-was-worse-than-the-rape

It's a sick attitude.

Your DH going with your kids and without you sends the message that YOU are the one on your own, and SHE is the one who gets the family around her on the Sunday. YOU are the one out of the circle. Ergo - she's right, you're wrong. She'll be smugly clapping herself on the back, having got exactly what she wanted - she will think her son probably insisted on taking the children to see his innocent mother, telling you to stay away if you couldn't be civil...*

Totally agree.

Frankly I think that the only way it should go is that none of you attend. If DH is as pissed off you say he is then he should, and I hope would, agree.

She needs to be put out of the circle, if any of you go, she will find a way to make herself right. When she is the one on her own she might cop on, although then she will be the victim....... but still. If DH goes on his own then you are the bitch that stopped her seeing her grandkids but "DS still loves me, he wouldnt leave me on my own no matter what his wife says". You need to be a united front on this one.

What she needs is a good sharp dollop of consequences.

I should add that this attitude is the reason I never reported my rape either, same as almost every other woman.

No fucking point and would have been more brutal than the attack, as that link clearly states. Plus, he was my boyfriend at the time and his parents had enough money to make sure he would have got off. Who in the hell would have believed a 19 year old slag single mother over an eligible good looking young man from a good family......

Someone earlier tried to post the link to the art installation on what women were wearing when they were raped or sexually assaulted, but the link is broken. I came on to post another one, so maybe, if you ever see your MIL again, show her this www.boredpanda.com/what-were-you-wearing-sexual-assault-art-exhibition/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic
I have grown up with the notion that you are only attacked because of wearing certain clothing, but that's my mums views, and not mine. She is also racist. I have really enjoyed lockdown as it's meant I've not had to listen to it, though she does post the odd thing on farcebook.
Good for you for standing up to her. I can only imagine what your MILs goddaughter would say if she heard what she has been saying.

Thanks @longtompot and others for sharing that link. I might post it on Facebook, or is that too passive aggressive?

Unfortunately my DM has this exact same attitude. We’ve had conversations about rape and she has said ‘what do they expect, the way they go out out getting so drunk!’. I get so angry with her. We end up falling out but she won’t be educated. I asked if she felt the same way about the lad at the OktoberFest A few years ago who was very drunk, couldn’t wait for the portaloos so went for a pee behind a wall or something. He was horribly gang raped. Was he to blame for his rape because he was naked from the waist down and very drunk? She just kept the saying that’s different but wouldn’t explain why. She just keeps saying the way women behave now is disgraceful. No wonder men have no respect for them. It’s magnified by the fact that I was raped in a nightclub Back in the 90’s after having my drink spiked, and all I can think of when My DM says this about women is she blames me for allowing it to happen. I’ve never told her and obviously never will. I’ve actually never told anyone In RL. I also know other women of my own age who are sanctimonious about it too and blame the victims behaviour or clothes. It makes my blood boil. I’ve told my DM I will not discuss it with her anymore because her views horrify me. It’s the elephant in the room. It’s one thing having to defend ourselves against men on this subject but when women also victim blame it just feels like we are never going get justice. I know how you feel about your MIL OP. I agree totally with your position. You have to go with what you feel is right.

Thanks for that link. Years ago, I used to think women were more likely to be raped/ attacked if they dressed "provocatively", though I still tried not to blame the victim. It is really good to have a reminder that sexual violence is not primarily about sex, but about violence, and the power disparities and inequalities that fuel it. If people understood this, the "she wore sexy clothes so she was asking for it" line suddenly makes no sense anymore.

Welcome op! Yes, I think it needs to be posted on fb ;)

I can't understand how female barristers can show a pair of knickers like the pair worn by the victim and use it as a reason to why they were raped. It was a case a few years ago in Ireland and I was shocked she did that!

Oh and OP, share the link on Facebook. Just don't give any indication as to why you have shared it, and enjoy the knowledge that your MiL will be seething but unable to say anything

I’ve only read OPs posts so I don’t know if it’s already been said, but personally I would have to tell MILs friend what she has been saying. Your MIL is somebody that this woman has placed her trust in, whose friendship she valued enough to make your MIL godmother to her daughter. She has the right to know that MIL is a false friend and a gossip who is blaming her daughter for her own rape behind her back. She deserves better friendship than that. Her daughter deserves a better godmother.

@Gurtcha

Thanks *@longtompot* and others for sharing that link. I might post it on Facebook, or is that too passive aggressive?

Nope.

I just have!

Rape is not about looks or what you're wearing; grannies get raped, women in burkas get raped.

Rape is about POWER. Nothing else.

When I was assulted I was cover in mud, horse hair, streaming snot, still wearing a crash helmet and had a recently dislocated shoulder.

It was opportunity.
Nothing to do with what I was wearing.

I hope you are ok mypath.
All my kids grandparents have odd views, I use it as an opportunity to talk about the topic. I have pointed out that my kids are raised to think badly of people who say things like that. But I would have lost my shit over that.

Well. If I would go out with my tits hanging out and a super tiny skirt I would be asking for attention for sure. But not to be raped.

Rape has to do with people who want to dominate and thrive of the fear of their victims.

You cant say: she dressed like a slut so she asked for it. If she dresses provokingly then she loves the attention and the stares. But Never is it an invitation for rape. Nor is it asking for it.

I was wearing the clothes I wore to work when it happened to me. Standard black work trousers and a black and white blouse. I guess I "asked for it" by not knowing that this respected senior executive and trusted mentor of mine was in fact a serial harasser and abuser of women. What a faux pas.

I’m fine.
It was one of those at the time I didn’t fully understand what had happened but have thought of it after when older with more life experiences and can see it for exactly what it was, Sexual assault.
I was 14 and he was a uni aged who came to “help” me after a fall.

I agree that OP's MIL's opinions are shocking. Fwiw I wholeheartedly agree that you did the right thing to say something. But to go NC? Not speak to her!? She, IMO has not harmed you or your family directly and if you stay in touch you can choose to counter her opinions. This "cancel culture" concerns me. It's her opinion. Not a good one, but am opinion.

Your DDs will eventually realise how toxic MIL is. My DDs (late teens) can barely spend 20 min with MIL before getting the rage at her archaic views ..... women, BAME, Corona ... the list is endless.

I don’t agree with Fizzygreenwater I’m afraid, who is gaily encouraging you to cause a huge and possibly irreparable family rift over what was, after all, a dumbassed comment that quite frankly, you should be able to move on from.

I think the intelligent thing to do would be to sit down with her for a talk about the comment, why it’s wrong, why you feel annoyed about it and your fear that her opinion will influence your daughters. Even though it won’t.

Seriously, this is mumsnet - people are always offering big advice which they would never follow themselves. Fizzy wouldn’t cut off her mil and cause a feud with her dh and his family after one ill-conceived comment, no matter how much she protests that she would...and neither should you. It easy for her to tell you to keep the kids away and have a drama - it’s not her drama.

This isn’t bigger than your family, your dh...your mil’s influence doesn’t scratch the surface compared to yours. It’s not worth a rift - not even close. Get some perspective, talk to the woman or have your dh explain it instead.

It’s not worth a family feud OP. Not in your actual, day to day, real life. None of us really care about the impact of that on your life...but you might and your dh would certainly suffer in the end.