*Trigger Warning* My MIL is a rape apologiser

[Gurtcha]

Just that really. Yesterday afternoon she was talking about her best friend’s (of 30+ years) DD, MIL’s god daughter. Unfortunately, MILBF’s DD was attacked and seriously sexually assaulted last weekend. Whilst telling us everything that she knew about the incident (thats something else - it was really not her place to tell all), she added that she wasn’t surprised it happened considering the way her god daughter dresses when out of an evening.

Mine and DHs jaw hit the floor, DH started stammering and I’m ashamed to say I hit the roof. I can usually tune out her mindless ignorance on most things but this time she got under my skin. I told her it was disgusting that she would defend an abuser of someone she claims to care about, that her attitudes were responsible for the suicides of victims that never get justice and that she needs to educate herself as she is clearly in the privileged position of being a woman that has never had to experience sexual abuse. I upped and left at that point. I did raise my voice, it’s true. I was totally disgusted and I still feel sick whenever I think about it. I’ve not spoken to her since, neither has DH. He’s seething.

The thing is, we have three young DDs 12, 8 and 3. AIBU to never want them to spend enough time with her for her views to become known to them? She can barely keep her opinions to herself at the best of times and I’m so scared that one day, my DDs will feel they have a good enough relationship with her to confide in her at a later date, if god forbid, anything should happen to them.

There is a missing full stop in there somewhere

[quote TheBitchOfTheVicar]@saraclara wearing a short skirt is comparable to leaving your car unlocked?

By using this analogy it seems unavoidable to draw the conclusion that you are comparing the two offences on some level if only I could lock my vagina up - would wearing jeans be locking it up, in your analogy?[/quote]
I've just explained what I meant.

I am explaining ONLY the difference between 'not surprising' and 'excusable'.

I’m confused @saraclara. What exactly was she saying then if she wasn’t saying that she’s not surprised her GD got raped considering the clothes she wears? What have her clothes got to do with the fact she was raped by a rapist?

OF COURSE I'm not comparing the two offences

You just did but you’re right, the two aren’t comparable...

@XingMing you are so far off the mark, you must be on a different planet to the mark. Nothing you are saying even makes a blind bit of sense.

Basically there is no scientific or moral reason for getting raped or sexually assaulted and anyone who even VAGUELY thinks their is, is in some way justifying rape.

Most women are raped by a family member or partner. Most children are abused by a family member

But here we are in 2020 and women on mumsnet are still saying, to prevent rape, don’t go out alone and don’t wear revealing clothes.

I actually fucking despair

@saraclara
The point of a good analogy is to use a good analogy, you can’t use one, and then preface it by saying “but the two are clearly not the same, and I’m not saying one is like the other”

@saraclara

So a woman dressed in a "sexy" manner shouldnt be surprised if she is attacked? Dont try and deny that that is what you are saying because it is there in black and white. Its disgusting.

I was abused by my step dad when I was little. My mum slapped me around the face when it all came out. I then faced years of trauma and not being able to sleep in my own bed so she tied me to the bed or locked me in the cupboard. Even to this day she has never apologised and when I was a teen and in desperate trouble for help she blamed me for being so dramatic! I dont understand women like this! I have 3 daughters and although in a better place with my mother they are still aware that she has very very outdated views. Racism is another one at the moment. 'Well that chap was a criminal, no wonder the police over reacted', 'no one moaned years ago when we said.... (racist words)' Its like an older generation of women have been completely devoid of human emotion (unless its being done the them!)

You not the only one @Flyingagainstreason. What a sorry state of affairs

OP, if she gets in touch tell her you will see her again when she has said those vile things to her best friend and the DD, and if she wont she should ask herself why that is, and why she said them if she knows them to be disgusting and cruel.

If all women decided to wear chastity belts, hair shirts and Birkenstock’s for the rest of the history of every woman’s life ever.

Do people really think no women would ever get raped again.

@Gurtcha

I’m confused *@saraclara*. What exactly was she saying then if she wasn’t saying that she’s not surprised her GD got raped considering the clothes she wears? What have her clothes got to do with the fact she was raped by a rapist?

OF COURSE I'm not comparing the two offences

You just did but you’re right, the two aren’t comparable...

I'm not comparing the offences. I VERY clearly said that. I am simply providing a vehicle (no pun intended) for the language around an offence.

You could choose your own offence and insert the same language. 'Not surprised' 'excusable' 'not to blame'

Not surprised is not the same as blaming the victim or excusing the perpetrator.

I’m so sorry @WingingItSince1973. I think you’re very brave to have kept a relationship going with your DM. You’re perhaps a much better person than me

I also said in my first response that of course your MIL needed pulling up on what she said. I don't approve of what she said at all.

What I'm saying is that it doesn't cross the line into a no contact situation. Whereas excusing the rapist would.

We need to get to the point where saying, 'well given how she was dressed, it's not 'surprising' she was raped'. is not okay.

Women get raped in nuns' habits. Thy ey get raped in dressing gowns. Little girls get raped in smocked dresses. Little girls get raped in their little school uniforms. They get raped in their NHS scrubs. They get raped in their corporate suits. They get raped in their onesies. They get raped in their Jeans and T. They get raped in their sari. They get raped in their hijab. They get raped in their gi. We get raped in everyfuckingthing. It has nothing to do with what we bloody wear.

@saraclara I think you might be on the same planet as @XingMing

Yes you did very clearly state that You were not comparing the 2 scenarios but you then went on and did exactly that. Saying you’re not surprised a person got raped because of what they’re wearing, is exactly the same as saying they got raped because of the clothes they were wearing. The context is the same. There was a rapist, there was clothes, there was a victim. Only one of those three things is the reason why the victim got raped and it ain’t the clothes.

Your argument makes no sense and is defunct.

Back to the OP.
I would go to the lunch. Don’t let her get away with not having to face consequences, and I would personally if I had the guts, try and talk to her about it. Because in all honesty I feel sorry for someone with this attitude, I mostly think they’re stupid and probably had something awful happen to them.
It’s a difficult social conditioning to blame people when bad things happen to them. It’s a way of protecting oneself. And making yourself feel better.

Haven't rtft, but people might be interested in the just world fallacy. Basically: bad things don't happen to good people, therefore if something bad happens to you it must be your fault. I always try to bear this in mind when I find my thoughts creeping in the wrong direction wrt victims of crime.

@Letmegetthisrightasawoman
What I was trying to say but failing

She was a complete and utter twat OP.

Women are not responsible for men's actions and no one can be held accountable for anyone's action bar their own. A woman should be able to walk naked down the street if she so wishes without being sexually harassed or assaulted. To lay the blame on her goddaughter because of what she was wearing is truly abhorrent.

You did the right thing to call her out on this appalling attitude, and I agree that if a family member of mine held such views I would be extremely cautious about them having contact with my daughters, as what kind of lesson and attitude is that teaching our young women? That we must hide ourselves for fear of being raped? That it's our fault if we are raped? No. I would've hit the roof too.

I'm sorry for your past experiences but I can 100% confirm you did not over-react and your MIL should be deeply, deeply ashamed of herself.

Cross post!

@gurtcha its been a guilt trip fest all my life. But I'm in a better place now. I think your MIL words are absolutely awful. I would distance yourself from her. Your DH sounds like a lovely man who feels the same as you. Its good that his mothers attitude didn't rub off on him. So don't worry too much about your girls. They have you both xxx

Me again sorry! Ha ha. Also the fact she divulged such extremely sensitive and private information also speaks volumes about her as a person. Dont ever confide in her about anything it will spread like wild fire! So so sorry about your past too. My step dad was never brought to justice. But I have my amazing family now and it sounds like you do too xx

I've found the most successful way of updating someone's views on the victim's responsibility is to ask if a man just walking along suddenly just punches someone - who is responsible for that violence? Should we investigate whether the punchee was wearing clothing the puncher felt were wrong in some way, inviting a violent response, or should we concentrate on bringing assault charges against the puncher? Does it matter what the punchee was wearing, or doing, or should we punish the puncher for punching no matter his motivation/reason/excuse?

At what point does it become OK to assume that the clothes someone is wearing indicate sufficiently strorngly that they deserve to be punched? Or can you justify punching a stranger because you can tell that they simply want to be punched? How can you tell if a stranger deserves to be punched? By their walk? Their hair style? Perhaps you overheard them say something rude about your football team in the pub earlier, so obviously they must be punched.

You can go on forever like this. It can be quite fun if you keep calm and just ask questions according to whatever the person says next.

There's so much pain on this thread, I just want to say to @XingMing and @saraclara to get their heads out of their arses and look up the statistics for rape of women wearing burkas.

It's not the clothes. It's never the clothes.

It's always the rapists.

And my heart goes out to all you survivors.