*Trigger Warning* My MIL is a rape apologiser

[Gurtcha]

Just that really. Yesterday afternoon she was talking about her best friend’s (of 30+ years) DD, MIL’s god daughter. Unfortunately, MILBF’s DD was attacked and seriously sexually assaulted last weekend. Whilst telling us everything that she knew about the incident (thats something else - it was really not her place to tell all), she added that she wasn’t surprised it happened considering the way her god daughter dresses when out of an evening.

Mine and DHs jaw hit the floor, DH started stammering and I’m ashamed to say I hit the roof. I can usually tune out her mindless ignorance on most things but this time she got under my skin. I told her it was disgusting that she would defend an abuser of someone she claims to care about, that her attitudes were responsible for the suicides of victims that never get justice and that she needs to educate herself as she is clearly in the privileged position of being a woman that has never had to experience sexual abuse. I upped and left at that point. I did raise my voice, it’s true. I was totally disgusted and I still feel sick whenever I think about it. I’ve not spoken to her since, neither has DH. He’s seething.

The thing is, we have three young DDs 12, 8 and 3. AIBU to never want them to spend enough time with her for her views to become known to them? She can barely keep her opinions to herself at the best of times and I’m so scared that one day, my DDs will feel they have a good enough relationship with her to confide in her at a later date, if god forbid, anything should happen to them.

A relative was similar. She didn't accept that her own DD was repeatedly raped by her partner at the time because 'he bought her expensive gifts and weekends away all the time' He was actually convicted in court of those rapes and the rapes of other women. Still relative can't accept that her DD is a rape survivor because it wasn't a stranger in an alleyway.

And relative now is baffled that her DD went NC.

I think bringing these attitudes out in the open with your kids when they're old enough, or if they repeat anything dodgy she says, helps. So you can be open with them that 'MIL has some damaging ideas about sexual assault/rape' etc, and calling her out on it can help stop her attitudes affecting your kids.

I have a rather body-facist MIL who very occasionally makes comments about DD's body (she's 12 FFS!), mostly not in front of DD thankfully. But DD is already pretty wise to MIL's bullshit on this front, she already rolls her eyes at MIL wanting her to grow her short hair long and that MIL has restrictive ideas about what bodies should look like etc, so I think she is fairly well armed to ignore her comments. My SIL managed to do the same (she has a beautiful, slim, statuesque figure that her mum always worried might be seen as fat) and shrugged off her mother's attitude thankfully!

I don't blame you for being annoyed, I would have felt the same. However she will think about what you said and come round. Maybe she's never come across such a thing before.

Telling you all the details was wrong but surely you could have cut her off saying something like, "Before you go any further, I doubt XXX wants her business being discussed in this way".

Make it clear to her that you stand by what you said and you do not want her granddaughters to pick up on her out dated views. I had to do that, not about sexual assault but about racist language in front of my child and it worked. Kids will hear all sorts but it would be nice to think they don't hear vile stuff from family.

I admire you. I should copy you. My parents came out with a horrific statement when the grooming gangs story broke "Well, it's not like they were nice innocent girls" and I didn't call them on it cos I'm a coward.

Well done. I also think that you and your DH will have the biggest influence over your DDs (until they reach teen years, and then it's their friends ) . You have to tell them that old people sometimes say stupid things .

I have a friend who said (during the Weinstein case) that she would just kick someone who tried it on with her and she doesn't understand why women get themselves into etc etc. People can be so ignorant.

Well done for calling her out on it and not just letting it slide - that's the first step towards changing these views in society.
Unfortunately, I have found that when a person believes another can be deserving of rape in any circumstances, it's not an issue of education, it's just deep rooted misogyny and/or general unpleasantness (when the victim is male). I don't agree that ignorance is the problem. Most people, unless they are genuine sociopaths, know that no-one deserves to be raped, because it's horrific. They're just desperate to perpetuate myths because it makes them feel in control, as though these sorts of things won't happen to them or their loved ones.

Well you can't get in touch with GD because she Matt not have wanted you to know in the first place.

As regards to MIL I think telling her she was wrong is a good thing and discussing what you will be telling your daughters in the future would be useful. However, I don't think losing your rag and shouting at her was the way to go about it. Nor do I think that you should stop her seeing your girls 'just in case' she says something that you don't agree with. As adults we have relationships with people we might not hold the same views as but we learn to deal with them.

Your children (female or male) are going to come up against nasty, ignorant, violent, selfish people in their lives and it's your job to equip them with the skills to deal with those situations as best you can.

As for 'bringing up girls being terrifying' you need to calm down and keep things in perspective. There are plenty of girls, teens and women who do not 'suffer' at the hands of men, either physically or verbally. It's not a foregone conclusion just because they are female.

Matt = might*

And yes, you should maybe chat with your oldest DD (or even the 8-year-old too, in an age-friendly way) and explain that Grandma can sometimes express unkind views, but the important thing is that what she says isn't true and you and DH love them very much, always have their back etc. Glad to hear your DH is on board.

As cross as you are - and I dont blame you, you're quite right - sadly your kids will encounter this attitude from several other people in their lives.
I encountered it recently with a woman who I thought was better than that. She's university educated, bright etc and not even 40 but when we were discussing the murder of Grace, New Zealand, acquaintance said "well she'd gone internet dating" as if that excused/explained the entire case.
It's maddening.
Just tell her if she cant keep her offensive opinions to herself she won't be seeing your kids.
I'm so glad your DH is also annoyed about this.
Agree she should not be discussing the details with people either. That's really grim.

You set a positive example to your DD. It would have been damaging NOT to. You did the right thing.

Do you think mil will care at no contact?

There are plenty of girls, teens and women who do not 'suffer' at the hands of men, either physically or verbally. It's not a foregone conclusion just because they are female.

I can promise you that every woman will experience sexual harassment at some point in their life, even if it's just a single catcall on one occasion. And it's far more likely that this will happen multiple times. The OP's worries are not unfounded, nor is she being overly dramatic. It's sensible of her to know the risks that women and girls face and to help educate and protect them however she can.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/powerful-art-exhibit-powerfully-answers-the-question-what-were-you-wearing

Sorry if the link doesn’t work, but it’s a powerful art exhibition of the clothes that were actually worn by rape victims.

I dont think you should mention to GD. I would hate for people to be taking about my rape as the latest gossip. However talking to someone who has been though a similar experience can be really helpful so its a hard one.

I think the best thing, as other posters have said, is to talk to your girls about misogynistic views and consent. Even just making sure some feminist books get on their reading list?

I'm not sure I would go nc. It would be a shame for them to loose that relationship. But they need to know that her views are wrong sometimes.

👏👏👏

Please think carefully before reaching out, though. This woman probably doesn't know that her mum told all the gory details to her friend, or if she does, that the friend would go on to pass all the info on to you and your DH. Whilst she has nothing to be ashamed of, it's still very personal, private business to some people (that's how I felt anyway and I would've been mortified in her shoes).

You’d think this kind of view would be outdated now. Unfortunately, there are still some idiotic people out there who love to victim blame.

I’ll never forget my high school best friends face when we told her mum that she had been raped, by the son of one of her mum’s friends. She asked me to go with her for support. Her mum initially said she was exaggerating and then blamed her for dressing ‘like a tart’. She also suggested my friend must have led him on and it was all a big misunderstanding.

You won’t be surprised they are absolutely nc now. The worst thing is, her mother is still good friends with the man who raped hers mum. They do Christmas together every year. They have all concocted a story that my friend is mental and made it up for attention.

On another note op, please don’t reach out to the gd as she would be mortified if she realised you know. Also, you 100% did the right thing in confronting your mil there and then.

www.thejournal.ie/students-sexual-violence-survey-5128720-Jun2020/

Grim reading but large proportions of women experience rape. Few report it. Fewer result in convictions. They use the term non consensual sex in the survey because so many women would not respond honestly if they call it rape. But what they describe in their questions is the definition of rape.

3 in 10.

I’m going to go against the grain and say do reach out to her.

Tell her your MIL told you what happened.

She needs a chance to get her mum to shut down MILs gossiping before the whole town knows about it.

My 14 year old goes running. She has experienced a dude in a van drive by, stop, and ogle her as she went past. To the point that my extremely independent, 10 foot tall and bullet proof girl, who has been taught self defence etc, was worried.

My 16 year old regularly gets cat calls, sexually explicit suggestions accompanied with hand gestures, along with requests for sexually explicit selfies - she laughs it off. It makes my heart bloody clench.

Why should our kids be subjected to that?

However, growing male children is no small beer either. Males can also be groomed and subjected to sexual abuse and exploitation, and I think in some ways, it can be even harder for them to come forward. And of course, we, as good women, want to ensure our male children aren't inhaling, digesting, and perpetuating rape myths, and understand about consent, and 'it's bad to rape,mmmmmmikay'?

Ty for the kind responses, they were unexpected. It's difficult to know whether or not to approach your MIL's GD or not but there is a good chance that she may not be ready to tell many people atm and knowing that other people know your horrible trauma without your consent can be a kick in the stomach. Handle it gently

There are plenty of girls, teens and women who do not 'suffer' at the hands of men, either physically or verbally. It's not a foregone conclusion just because they are female.

I mean PPs have responded to this much more eloquently than me but frankly, this is bullshit and frankly the kind of thing my MIL would say. Sexual abuse and harassment is a wide spectrum, from a wolf whistle at one end, to violent rape and abduction at the other. You’d be hard pushed to find a woman that has never encountered something on the spectrum. Fact is, most women don’t even realise because it’s been so normalised and minimalists, we’re conditioned to believe it’s normal.

With regards to bringing up girls terrifying, it’s not just sexual abuse thy they will have to face in their life. They will have to encounter many, many things that will constantly reinforce that they are not equal, as worthy or important than any man in this planet.

Maybe I’m a bra burning, hairy, hysterical feminist, who knows but I don’t really care when all I want is for my children to be treated fairly and decently and not be harmed physically or emotionally. I pray everyday that they will feel as strongly as me and will not succumb to society’s gaslighting.

As for losing my cool not being a good thing. I know that. That’s what I’m ashamed about. I wish I had been able to cut her down in a quietly dignified way but I guess when you’re hearing repulsive things, that’s not always an option.

1. I think is disgusting she is essentially gossiping about something like this. She clearly has no boundaries, reminds me a lot of my own MIL. She had no right at all to tell anyone else. She obviously doesn't have any compassion at all.

1. No normal person still thinks that a woman is to blame 'for getting herself raped' outside of Saudi Arabia.

You have no reason to apologise for your reaction. No doubt it triggered a lot of emotion tied up with your own experiences but that makes it no less valid or correct. Sounds like MIL needed a good telling off in this instance!!

Ah. News just in from MIL to DH via text. I was ‘unnecessarily aggressive’ and ‘disappointing’ yesterday. Apparently she feels attacked and upset but is looking forward to seeing us for dinner next Sunday, especially the children.

DH just laughed. He’s not responding.

@DonutCone I’m going to use a deadpan point 2 next time (which I have no doubt there will be).