To think the majority of you are fatphobic?

[Beebee8]

Just that.

Oliviaskies, alcoholics still need to drink liquids, just not ones with alcohol in them, in the same way a food addict would have to give up unhealthy foods, just eat the good stuff

Hmmm... on balance, I am what you would call 'fatphobic'.

I'm not disgusted or enraged by overweight people, but I do judge the very obese who are causing themselves and the NHS a wealth of problems by poor diet and lifestyle.

I feel there's a vast difference between being a few stone overweight and clinically obese and we each have personal responsibilities to our health and the care system.

I feel the same way about smokers,binge drinkers and people who are reckless with their personal safety though.

But if someone is happy to be fat then I support their right to that choice. And I don't think only thin people can be attractive.

"There is a whole movement going on to bring down fatphobia and diet culture and I do think change is on the horizon, just hope these harmful systems and beliefs die out soon before even more damage is done!"

Considering people in here are likening this to an addiction, will they then promote other addictions as fine and dandy? Shall I expect proper meth addicts high as a kite in ads now? You know. To be fair to all? If one "addiction" is ok, then others should too?

People need to choose. Either it will be treated as addiction so no "you look gorgeous" or it is not an addiction and it can be promoted.

I think there as many people thin-shaming as being fatphobic.

I read an article once on the disadvantages of bariatric surgery (gastric bypass or similar) to treat obesity.

Many patients went on to develop new addictions or started to self medicate in other( non food related) ways. They developed issues with alcohol, recreational drugs, gambling and even shopping addictions. There was an underlying problem that hadn't been treated by gastric surgery.

Most people have a complicated relationship with food. I think the only reason I'm not fat is because I consciously restrict my eating and worry (probably too much) about my weight. It's hard work and not much fun.

Should we celebrate being fat and remove all stigma though? No I don't that would be helpful to society.

'Surely over eating to obesity IS comparable to other destructive behaviours like drug abuse or alcohol abuse? And shouldn’t be “shamed” but treated?'

That was my whole point. We are allowed to talk about the health issues of smoking and heavy drinking without being accused of shaming or phobia. We have to tip toe around obesity in case people are offended. I don't think smokers, heavy drinkers or over eaters should be insulted but I do think we should stop using cosy terms such as comfort eating and be honest about the fact obesity is incredibly unhealthy and people do have the power to change it.

Yes some may have mh issues and need treatment but the majority just need to eat less, like binge drinkers need to drink less.

It's frustrating that what might intuitively seem part of the remedy to general obesity - ie (gently) pointing out the health consequences, seems to actually be more of the poison for some people- 'You've made me feel bad, and eating makes me feel better so I am just going to do more of that'.

I'd agree self-worth has to be tackled for many to get in the best position to work towards a healthy weight and feel it is an achievable goal.

'I'm hoping all these lovely slim mumsnetters are never dealt a different hand. That they never find themselves unable to maintain their perfect weight due to a mental or physical health issue, or through poverty, or through any other set of circumstances outside their control.'

What an utterly naive thing to say. I would guess many of us have been 'dealt a different hand', including serious illness, significant treatment, medication with horrible side effects. That is why when others want to constantly excuse obesity as being an illness out of their control and we aren't to mention that it is completely fixable then it does become tedious. I'm not slim, but I'm not overweight, I have a healthy BMI. I could very easily become overweight however if I didn't restrict what I eat. Barring the tiny proportion with any mh issues that is all people need to do.

If those with cancer or any other disease could cure themselves believe me they would. Stop excusing obesity and take control.

No, not fatphobic, OP, but I'm always going to challenge pseudo scientific bullshit and certain attitudes that seem to be creeping in about obesity.
Personal insults and trolling should never be allowed to stand either though.There needs to be a balance which I think Mumsnet gets about right.

@Beebee8

I'm sorry to people who have been hurt, you are right this is a toxic thread and I am responsible for giving these idiots even more space to spew their hatred. Guess I hit a lot of fatphobic posters' nerves.

@Beebee8 I re-read the whole thread and the only throwing insults is you, calling those who don't agree with you idiots.

You have spewed so much hatred, I now wonder which of your nerves did we hit.

Someone with an overeating disorder, or who binges, comfort eats, etc, can't simply stop eating. They need to eat to survive

They don't need to eat so much they're not expected to give up food there is a balance.

You’ve really missed the point. It’s much easier long term to go cold turkey and never have a cigarette/alcoholic drink/whatever again than it is than to have those things in moderation. Over eaters don’t have that option available to them. Think about how much of normal life revolves around eating. You can’t just distract yourself by thinking about other things when you’ve got to cook for yourself or your whole family. You can’t avoid the aisles in the supermarket with the fags or booze because food is everywhere. Social events are often all geared around eating mostly less healthy food.

alcoholics still need to drink liquids, just not ones with alcohol in them, in the same way a food addict would have to give up unhealthy foods, just eat the good stuff

This is not in any way a valid comparison. You can overeat the “good stuff” and stay overweight. What is the “good stuff” anyway?

Thin people have also dealt with poverty, losing loved ones to horrific diseases, the loss of children and so on.
The fact is the obese are putting a strain on their own health and also the NHS (diabetes alone costs millions).
The sad fact is that people who are slim are quite often working very hard at it. If I wanted to be slimmer, I’d have to work hard at it.

[quote frumpety]**@viques* The difference is that there is nothing you can do to stop ageing .Whereas there is a lot that can be done to tackle obesity.*

You are right that there is a lot that could be done to tackle obesity, I am just not sure that a lot is actually being done though ?

There are a lot of reasons people put on weight, recognising the different reasons for weight gain would help give better advice and support. If a one size fits all eat less/move more approach genuinely worked, we wouldn't have an obesity crisis would we ?[/quote]
eat less/move more approach genuinely worked

But it does! The fact is we live in a culture where far too many people eat more than they need and mostly move very little. In cultures where people don't eat to excess and move more , either by walking or working , obesity doesn't really exist.

What is particularly worrying is that obesity is so prevelant we are almost blind to it. And not just in the adult population. The number of children and young people who carry big bellies and rolls of excess fat is very worrying and is a health time bomb that will kill many more of them from cancers, heart failure and diabetes than Covid 19, falling off scooters ,not wearing seat belts,drug use and stranger danger put together .

These are not children who are chunky or chubby, they are potentially healthy children whose life expectation is being shortened by decades, and who will face years of pain , discomfort and illness before then caused solely by their weight.

I don't want kids and overweight teens to be ashamed of their bodies, but I do want parents who have ignored their children's weight to take more care and not be allowed to deny their responsibility.

'I'm hoping all these lovely slim mumsnetters are never dealt a different hand. That they never find themselves unable to maintain their perfect weight due to a mental or physical health issue, or through poverty, or through any other set of circumstances outside their control.'

Who says we're all slim? I'm certainly a stone heavier than I used to be. If I became obese through no fault of my own, I would still see the obesity as a problem.

'You can’t just distract yourself by thinking about other things when you’ve got to cook for yourself or your whole family. You can’t avoid the aisles in the supermarket with the fags or booze because food is everywhere'

Can't, always can't. You can!! Well, not avoid the food aisles, but you can manage the compulsion. Or shop online, just order what you need.

If someone has a mental health problem, if they are a food addict, if they use food to self harm then seek help, see your gp and get some support.

For most the answer unfortunately is just to eat less. If you keep saying can't it is never going to happen.

I am late to the party, but this thread reminded me of the backlash Cancer Research received after their "obesity is now the number one cause of cancer" advert.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/cancer-research-obesity-fat-shaming-ovarian-liver-risk-smoking-a8986346.html

If scientific fact is 'shaming' then we are creating our own demise as a human race. People just don't want to deal with their issues when they simply can force the world to validate them. That's not healthy.

My BMI has never topped 25.5 because at that point I looked in the mirror and felt awful and sluggish, so I changed it. I snack, I eat comfort food, but I make an effort to limit myself because of my health.

If it makes me fatphobic to recognise the proven links between obesity and cancer, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, joint problems, etc, then I'm proudly fatphobic.

Because deep down we all know it isn't phobic at all. It's just easier to label everything we don't want to hear as "phobic", however true it may be.

'You can’t just distract yourself by thinking about other things when you’ve got to cook for yourself or your whole family. You can’t avoid the aisles in the supermarket with the fags or booze because food is everywhere'

Eh? So now it is the supermarket's fault? I must be doing something wrong then, avoiding the crap whilst food shopping. No one forces you to buy it.

I agree with the point above about the importance of tackling childhood obesity and parent's responsibility.

I do think blame lies with the food industry and marketing. I feel quite strongly about the number of foods marketed as healthy and specifically for babies and children..
Shelves are groaning with foods labelled Organic, natural, additive free, one of your 5 a day and parent's are tricked into thinking these are healthy snacks. They are in fact filling their child with bags of sugar.

E.g., Organic Goodie raisins minis : 68g sugar per 100g
Cow and Gate natural fruity porridge 39 g per 100g
Kiddilicious apple fruit wriggles 55g per 100g
Fruit winder : A whopping 79g sugar per 100g

All marketed as healthy choices for your child when in fact they should be treated as sweets.

From all the obesity threads on aibu I gathered the following:

• it's all out of control of the person
• if you say you disagree because you lost weight after realising it is in your control you are an anecdote. So is that other 100 people who always disappear because they are told their experience is just an anecdote. There is a point when anecdotes stop being anecdotes.
• whatever you say about obesity is wrong unless you agree that it's not in people's own control
• it's an addiction like drugs, but it isn't. It should be treated like a drug addiction, but it shouldn't. Decide.
• people need to realise that studies are not absolute indicator of how it is. If you want to do study about mh issues affecting obesity, you will have sample of people whose mh issues did in fact affect their weight🤷🏻
• that samples btw are basically anecdotes too in grand scheme of things. 1000 people out of 10+million?
• it's fine to be rude to others of you are obese

Bit sad, innit

I've never seen those things as particularly healthy

#smileyclare

@rosiejaune actually the homo in homophobia comes from the Greek όμοιος, which means 'same'. Homosexual is a hybrid word (first part Greek, second part Latin), but homophobia is fully Greek, even though it's a back formation from homosexual.

The sad fact is that people who are slim are quite often working very hard at it.

Yes often to the point of being obsessive. Far better to have a BMI of 23.5 and to be able to maintain that without too much effort than 18.5 and your whole life revolves around maintaining it.

Shrodinger I'm inclined to agree. It's such a complex issue. The Against Fat phobia Movement that OP is trying to champion will never be widely accepted. It's too simplistic and absolves all personal responsibility.

It boils down to wanting everyone to be respected and free from abuse because of how they look. Which is right. The rest of it is questionable.

Is an obese person a victim of prejudice because they weren't offered a job as a childcare worker due to the limitations of their size? No I don't think so. Is an obese person being treated unfairly because they are refused an operation? Is a doctor fat shaming to tell a patient to lose weight? No. Is a fat person a victim of phobia because they don't enjoy clothes shopping? I don't agree with a lot of Op's argument.

Can't, always can't. You can!! Well, not avoid the food aisles, but you can manage the compulsion. Or shop online, just order what you need.

Nobody would ever think telling an anorexic to just eat more would work but apparently it’s easy for overeaters (I don’t mean just people who have fallen into bad habits, I mean those with serious problems) to just magically change their eating habits. Shopping online is a nightmare at the moment. I’m not saying people can’t get around these things but there seems to be a wilfully lack of understanding that it’s actually very difficult.

If someone has a mental health problem, if they are a food addict, if they use food to self harm then seek help, see your gp and get some support.

Good luck with that. There’s pretty limited support out there for the emotional reasons people overeat. It’s all around diet and exercise changes, which are really important but if you don’t address why you’re overeating most diets are just going to fail.

Eh? So now it is the supermarket's fault? I must be doing something wrong then, avoiding the crap whilst food shopping. No one forces you to buy it.

It’s not all down to supermarkets, obviously. People have personal responsibility but I was talking about the comparison between quitting smoking/drinking vs eating more healthily. You cannot avoid being around food in the way that you can with cigarettes/alcohol. That makes avoiding temptation much more difficult when it’s always in your face.