To think the majority of you are fatphobic?

[Beebee8]

Just that.

@SmileyClare like some of the people with weight problems have mental health issues? They’re less deserving of your empathy though? I assume you mean the person who made the complaints - but could just as easily be someone who abuses a service because they can, just like someone who overeats could be struggling with their mental health or they could just enjoy whatever they’re eating!

@WorraLiberty no link I’m afraid, just 13 years working for the nhs! I apologise I should have stated my opinion as an opinion rather than stating it as a fact. You’re right to pull me up on that. Just hard to see either oldies or bigger people being blamed for something that I see everyday being destroyed by people from all walks of life, all shapes, sizes etc, generally the great entitled - who could just go to a pharmacist (or better still, self care like we did when personal responsibility was a thing!) but instead rock up in ED and waste thousands of pounds of nhs money in dr/nurse/staff hours, needless investigations, fines on waiting times and pointless diagnostic tests... depresses the life out of me. Day to day over those years I’ve definitely wasted more time on those that don’t need the service than those who need it through obesity.

To be fair Worra I doubt any statistics on Patients with a poor attitude and the costs incurred when treating them have been complied

It's a fair point to mention modern day entitled attitudes and the alarming compensation culture. However, there's no point denying that treating obesity related conditions is taking up most of the nhs budget.

Of course all NHS services are woefully underfunded. The government has crippled the NHS, not fat or old people.

I have nothing to add to this enlightening debate, but I just wanted to make myself look like an idiot by pretending that I only ever use the term “phobia” absolutely literally (ideally when I’m speaking Ancient Greek) and, being an idiot, have no knowledge of its current idiomatic forms.

I’m sure I’m the first to mention this, and trust it will be a helpful addition to the thread.

@Teateaandmoretea

I'd rather die than buy a size 12

Wtaf 😂😂 you daft bint

I relate to that. I was anorexic for years, probably still am. There was a point in time I would've wanted to die if I was a size 6. Eating disorders are so common in women - it's not being a 'daft bint' at all.

Well fair enough to pull me up on some of my comments BellyMama.

I like to think I have empathy for obese people with mental health issues. I wanted to point out that not all fat people are suffering with emotional issues or mental health problems and sat at home weeping or being bullied. Surely a lot of them are aware of their lifestyle choices and are quite content? They don't want pity.

I don't know, I was brought up by a mother with border line anorexia. She passed some of her fear of being fat onto me definitely. That's my own issue. I would say my phobia of being fat is entirely directed at myself though, if that makes sense.

@SmileyClare agreed wholeheartedly on the government. And half of them are both old and fat, plus have a terrible sense of entitlement...

Also, in relations to some conversations about overeating disorders vs alcoholism and smoking - whilst overeating could be considered an addiction, it's a completely different beast.

An alcoholic can stop drinking. 100% dry, never touches another drop of alcohol in their life. A smoker can completely quit and never smoke another cigarette (not that it would be easy for either)

Someone with an overeating disorder, or who binges, comfort eats, etc, can't simply stop eating. They need to eat to survive. It complicates it. I'm sure if you said to an alcoholic "you need to have three beers a day to live" recovery would be a different story.

Makes perfect sense and glad to hear its not directed at others but hope it’s not causing you too many problems either, no one should feel shite about themselves because of someone else’s hang ups. Personally not fussed if you’re fat or thin, more interested in the person you are. And agreed - many larger people are perfectly content with being that way, not arguing the point there!

Anyway I’m going bed, just looked at the clock and my 9 month old will be up in 4 hours.... interesting thread, not wholly encouraging but could have been worse too - there’s some interesting opinions here.

Also, in relations to some conversations about overeating disorders vs alcoholism and smoking - whilst overeating could be considered an addiction, it's a completely different beast It really isn't at all. The addictions are the same uncontrollable. Every addict is focused on their vice they'll lie to get it. Every addict thinks of their fix constantly feels shit with the come down.
An alcoholic can stop drinking. 100% dry, never touches another drop of alcohol in their life. A smoker can completely quit and never smoke another cigarette (not that it would be easy for either) This is a cope out. Fact the vape has proved it is easier to abstain from smoking when you have a little of what you love.
Someone with an overeating disorder, or who binges, comfort eats, etc, can't simply stop eating. They need to eat to survive
They don't need to eat so much they're not expected to give up food there is a balance.

I’m not fatphobic but I do think it’s wrong on many levels when being dangerously over, or under, weight is advertised as a ‘good’ thing or something to be celebrated.

Both are equally dangerous for your health, one is not better than the other. I have been both ends of the spectrum myself (drastically over and then under weight over the space of several years) and neither felt good. I felt unhealthy and suffered Multiple side effects of both.

Whilst I don’t judge any adults personal choices, and I certainly don’t think they should be bullied or victimised for them, I equally don’t think unhealthy lifestyles should be thrust upon/advertised to people as something positive. In exactly the same way that I have no issue with smokers, but I don’t agree with it being advertised as glamorous or cool.

I think the ‘real women’ movement is amazing but morbid obesity is not representative of the average U.K. woman. You can be a healthy size 10-18 dependant on height and build...etc
You can not be a healthy size 28, nor a healthy size 0. You have a problem and should seek help,

@Beebee8

OK so nobody even knows what the term fatphobia means judging by the pointless comments above

its more you dont get what a phobia is

Phobia means you have an uncontrolled, irrational fear.
Me, its needles, i blackout, run for hills, literally no control over reactions, i broke a drs nose AFTER breaking restraints as a 10yr old, was deemed unsafe to take blood in pregnancy in my 20s.

Do people react like that to fat people? Simply, on the whole, no, they dont.
You may get some comments about weight, i do too about my size but its not a phobia.

People have been taking the piss out of fat people for years and years, it's not something that's happened in the last decade or even 20 years. It was probably worse back when I was large.

I'm a couple of years off 50 and up to the point of my mid teens was fat, ok, huge to be honest. The shit I faced at school from not just other kids, but the teachers was appalling. One teacher calling me the "class ape" and another "fatty Philippa", well just shows the teachers intelligence really. And the other kids, oh nothing new there "lets go beat up the fat kid".

Mine was caused by nothing but eating too much, so I did something about it and slimmed from a 38 to 26 inch waist over a period of time.

I'm very slim now, but the nasty shit I faced has stayed with me. I have zero interest in food, to be honest I hate it and will only eat if I'm hungry and then not much. The thought of a meal in a restaurant gives me zero interest, its wasted on me. Eating disorder? Probably, but I've been this way for years now.

What I'm getting at is, none of this "shaming" or "phobic" behaviour is new, just like any behaviour, its happened in the past and a lot more bloody vicious than it is these days.

Cathy I couldn't agree more with you, but it's clear that there's plenty of folk here and in RL who don't believe over eating is a compulsion or an addiction, it's just being greedy, lacking will power and the fat person has brought it all on themselves and deserves to be called names

I don't think most people on this thread are saying that at all. In fact, I think most people are exactly saying that it is an addiction, like drug or alcohol for many people, with underlying causes. What most people are saying is that we shouldn't shame people for the addiction but we shouldn't also pretend it's a good or neutral thing to have the addiction.

This is what people struggle with, the denial that it's a problem. Just like people would struggle with an alcoholic or drug addict saying they are healthy and it's no problem to their lives or to society overall.

Of course there should be empathy. But tying yourself in knots to prove that skinny people can be unhealthy too, or that many people are very overweight and healthy too, isn't helpful. You could use exactly the same argument for drug or alcohol addiction or smokers. But it wouldn't change the fact that you are more likely to be having a detrimental affect on your health than if you were a healthier weight. Just like you're more likely to be unhealthy if you drink a lot or smoke. You may still live to a long and healthy old age but it's much less likely. None of that is trying to shame or hurt people.

Go on then I'll bite. I wouldnt say I am fat phobic but I do think it is less healthy to be overweight or obese. I do equally think its less healthy to be underweight too though.

Exercise is good for you and it's quite rare to be regularly exercising (properly, with an elevated heart rate) and stay very overweight, if you are eating a reasonably healthy diet. So I associate a reasonably slim build with health and fitness.

I'm not very thin myself at the moment (I weigh 11st, probably a size 14) and i look and feel healthier a stone lighter, all i can go on is personal feeling.

I'm very fat, I know it's fucking awful and unhealthy as I can feel it. I feel sorry for other people in this situation as its not comfortable and makes everyday chores harder.
I don't give a fuck about the body positive movement, most people who bleat on about it aren't really fat anyway, just a bit chubby.

Also I'm very aware that increasing body weights are contributing to rising healthcare costs with increased rates of type 2 diabetes, costs of beds and other equipment reinforced for heavier patients.

Theres a reason doctors deny certain treatments until a patient loses weight, its because it reduces risks and increases the success rates for the most part.

@LeGrandBleu yes, I agree about the party food and eating “like children”

I still think it’s odd to drink soda (fizzy pop) with a meal it’s just not part of how I used to eat (in my culture), and ordering a coke with my main meal just seems weird

Eating crisps with your sandwich is also still weird to me

But saying that, because everyone does it it seems more normal to me now

I think I am a bit yes, just for me. I don’t really care what anyone else weighs but I feel better when I’m slimmer.
It’s the same thing that I’m debt phobic, alcoholic phobic, drug addict phobic. I don’t want any big problems that I need to sort out later on so I’m as moderate as possible.

Day to day over those years I’ve definitely wasted more time on those that don’t need the service than those who need it through obesity
Frustrating but these people don't cost anywhere close to what obesity cost the nhs. Its not obesity itself, it's the consequences with long term conditions, cost of knee and hip replacements, back problems etc... As quoted above, it's in the billions. Then he would be in a fine position of we could reduce obesity by 50%.

We can come up with all the excuses of the world, but we are, as a society, overweight because we are greedy and spoilt. We can access food, we can afford it and we don't say no to it. Portions have become ridiculous because over time, we have wanted to just have a bit more of the good thing and then more and more.

Our level of resilience have gone down as generations have turned from favouring discipline to encouraging pleasure in our children.

I’m about 5ft 6 and weigh just under 10st and in my eyes I need to lose weight. I don’t particularly feel comfortable with my figure, I don’t particularly like my husband seeing my naked, but other people would probably class me as slim. Ideally though I would like to lose about half a stone, maybe a little more.

Weight is a very strange thing. I remember when I was about 17/18 and I was a slim size 10, very happy with my figure, and one guy told me I was “borderline” in terms of how heavy a girl he would date.

People have all sorts of perceptions of weight.

I might look at someone and think they are overweight, whereas someone else will look at them and think their weight is perfectly normal.

I don’t actually see a lot of fat shaming on here.

I see people talk about overweight people being more likely to have health complications but that’s not shaming, that’s just stating a medical fact isn’t it?

@viques The difference is that there is nothing you can do to stop ageing .Whereas there is a lot that can be done to tackle obesity.

You are right that there is a lot that could be done to tackle obesity, I am just not sure that a lot is actually being done though ?

There are a lot of reasons people put on weight, recognising the different reasons for weight gain would help give better advice and support. If a one size fits all eat less/move more approach genuinely worked, we wouldn't have an obesity crisis would we ?

I agree with the need to refuse fat shaming or fat phobia or any of these terms, because discriminating or deriding someone for their appearance is wrong.

However should we stop being critical? This is very different from the empowering for other physical characteristics. Would it make us complicit of the snacking manufacturers who have been really good at creating addictive personalities by normalising wrong food choices.
Some people have food addiction linked to terrible misadventures , bereavement and other catastrophic events, but I believe that for the majority of people who struggle to quit some foods, this addiction has been creeping up one lunchbox after the other, and then one habit or association after the other.

It is not normal to eat crisps on a daily or weekly basic. Buying a chocolate bar on the way home. Snacking is so pushed into the culture, eating in front of the television, in a car, after dinner, before dinner, and this starts in young children. Parents giving treats . In any other language, to treat is a medical term referred to treating an illness. In English it becomes a noun that describes the act of conceding or recompensing a child with a crappy food . These kids will grow and associate crappy food with rewards or special moments. I have heard adults say " I deserve a treat" before buying cakes not I fancy a cake I will have a slice.

The behaviour around food is in my opinion completely disordered . The taste is dominated by artificial combination that do not exist in nature. People are not used to have an empty stomach anymore but it used to be a normal sensation that differs from hunger. We grew up having to wait for dinner to be ready and we didn't open the fridge , cupboard or crap drawer 20 times a day.

So yes, absolutely, nobody should be victim of hateful comments. But calling me an idiot because I am not comfortable in saying that fat is not a problem is not helping anyone.

"There is a whole movement going on to bring down fatphobia and diet culture and I do think change is on the horizon, just hope these harmful systems and beliefs die out soon before even more damage is done!"

My Mum is obese. For years she hovered at about 22 stone, height 5'4". A serious illness meant that she lost 5 stone in weight very quickly. She needed to reduce her multiple hypertension drugs, reduce her Type 2 diabetes drugs, stop her cholesterol drug. All as a result of losing weight, because those conditions improved massively and the drugs were actually doing her harm, then. It really is as simple as 'if you lose weight, your medical conditions improve'.

I am not saying that there should be any shame around obesity, but it will do enormous harm if society accepts obesity as 'normal'. It isn't. It is a problem. Just as extreme thinness is a problem.

Eating crisps with your sandwich is also still weird to me
Well yeah it's weird, the crisps supposed to be between 2 soft white bread slices, slapped in butter. Salt and vinegar or light and tangy work best

Our lifestyle is so far removed from the hunting caveman we evolved from. It's no wonder that nearly half our adult population is overweight.

It's an almost animal urge to feast on food that's available. Animals are the same; they are programmed to eat all the food to insure that they survive food shortages.

I used to live next to a Chinese restaurant and several local foxes would gorge on the leftover bins outside. They were actually fat. Now I'm sure those chubby foxes weren't overeating because they were depressed. They were just led by their natural pleasure seeking desire.

Of course, humans are more complex and for some over eating is a form of self harm or an attempt to self medicate underlying emotional trauma, or as mentioned here - simply an addiction.

For others, they are overweight because they have over indulged. They have made unhealthy choices (which everyone has the freedom to do) but they are responsible for that choice and the consequences.