TMI.. To not want to use condoms?

[Bonehilda]

First, my DP and I are in an exclusive relationship and STDs aren't a problem as we've been checked. We have an active sex life, but some things are starting to irk me.

I'm on the implant, one of the most effective forms of birth control out there. Even though I bleed like a bitch on it, I love the fact that me and DP could have sex without a condom. I really hate them, I feel like they are a physical barrier during a time that I feel is very intimate.
The problem is though, DP doesn't trust anything other than condoms, no matter what I say I can't convince him that my implant is very effective.
He has NEVER had sex without a condom either, with anyone at all, so he doesn't know how it feels without them. He also cannot ejaculate with it on, so every time we have sex, he needs to masterbate to finish off leaving me feeling unsatisfied and rather peeved off.

I'm starting to feel a little bit untrusted, unloved and unwanted due to all of these things. I want to be able to feel him, and him feel me, I want to have that ultimate intimacy and level of closeness.

Yabu- you're being a sensitive moo over this, shut up and get over it.
Yanbu- he is being wayyyy over paranoid.

Help!

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If you've found this page in search of condoms that have been tried and tested by fellow Mumsnet users, you might find our guide to the best condoms useful. Hope this helps! MNHQ

@dontdisturbmenow its already been stated that that isn't the issue and I see that. Yes it might make me feel a bit down but it's been highlighted there are bigger issues that are far more important.

I dunno. If he just doesn’t want to, that’s his his prerogative. You can’t force him to not wear one, he won’t consent to sex without it

[quote JinglingHellsBells]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras You are fully entitled to think what you want, and so am I. As I am fully entitled to make comments , as are you.

Your post offers 1 example of late diagnosis. So?

You say it's up to him to assess his fertility. So?
That's obvious.

I don't think your post contributes anything useful at all, other than giving you some satisfaction of criticising another opinion.

The point of threads is to give an opinion.

Why are so sure yours is the only one that is the right one?[/quote]
Oh and of course your posts have been extremely helpful and enlightening?

Ultimately, it's no one's business whether this man is infertile or not. He doesn't have to find out to satisfy your curiosity nor the curiosity of the op.

He doesn't want to stop using condoms - entirely his prerogative.

The op has a decision to make as to whether she wants to continue having a relationship and sex with him given that these are his red lines. Her keep bringing up the fact that she wants him to stop wearing a condom.so that she can give him an experience that he's never had before really doesn't sit comfortably with me. It feels like all the examples we see of men going on at women to do X,Y or Z in the bedroom. He's got his boundaries and he shouldn't be cajoled into crossing them. If op doesn't agree with them then of course she's well within her rights to move on. Clearly they aren't compatible.

@eleventy3isthemagicnumber thank you, I'm realising that it is the fact he wont let me in. I kept thinking what is so wrong with me that he wouldn't let me do that. Now I see it's his issue. I would like to help him and try to get past this together if that is possible.

@JinglingHellsBells I haven't had a Frank chat about it, but upon asking why he wont come in me he said sometimes he can't. To me that tells me he was able to at some point but cant with me as he never has. And that brings me right on round to "it must be me" which I'm trying to get past.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras Look, we are all finding life hard at the moment but is there any need to add to it with your sarcy comments? It's not exactly in the spirit of things is it? And it's not showing you in a good light.

If you want to discuss this topic sensibly and like an adult, that's fine. If you want to get into some insult war, choose another poster.

As for the actual topic.

It is my opinion -which the OP and her boyfriend can take or leave- you do realise posts here are opinions- (with which you may not agree of course) that as the first post was about his fear of pregnancy, that he doesn't want children, and he may be infertile, the most obvious thing for a mature adult male (who is going to have sex for decades) would be to find out his fertility.

That's no different for a woman, or for women around menopause who want to ditch condoms or other contraception.

Apart from repeating yourself again, why is that such an issue for you?

It's bang on what the OP's first post was all about- his fear of a pregnancy, yet he could be infertile.
So what's the obvious step for him to take?

Of course it's his choice. But it would seem a rational step if his fear of PG is ruining a relationship.

I'm sorry, OP. Does your p know that you can't Organization by yourself? If he does, this is NOT a good sex luges. He leaves you frustrated every time you have sex?

Did that for a game of soldiers.

I'd advise three things: start caring a lot more about yourself than you do about him.

Practise masturbating so you know what you like and you can make yourself come. It's really important that you know what you like.

Talk to him about all his issues. Why won't he make you come? Why won't he let you wank him? Why won't he come inside too?

Then think about what YOU really want. This sexual half-life with a bloke with issues, or something more.

I'm sorry, OP. Does your p know that you can't orgasm by yourself? If he does, this is NOT a good sex life. He leaves you frustrated every time you have sex?

That's what my post should have said...

Op, you are complaining about him because he says that he can't come inside you but you've said that you can't make yourself come - why is it ok for you but not for him?

It seems like there are some issues on both sides here.

Ultimately, there are many reasons why he's doing what he's doing and we can all try and hazard a guess but that's all they'll be - guesses. The only person that can give you the reasons are him and maybe he doesn't feel able to. You can't make him tell you, nor have the type of sex that you want all that you can do is decide whether to continue the relationship or not.

I really do feel uncomfortable with your insistence that you know what's best him though - it really is his choice whether he lets you masturbate him or not or whether he chooses to not use a condom. It's not up to you to decide that you know he will enjoy it more

To me that tells me he was able to at some point but cant with me as he never has. And that brings me right on round to "it must be me" which I'm trying to get past.

This is really sad.

Other posters have said up thread that it's not you that is the issue and it's now become all about your self worth.

You dont know if he has come in another woman. He may not have. It would be a very hard thing for him to admit to .

Unless he, or you and him, are willing to try sex therapy, and get to the root of this, I can't see it changing unless of course he opens up to you about the problem he has.

And to me it sounds like he can only come using a death grip after watching too much porn. Sorry.

[quote Bonehilda]@eleventy3isthemagicnumber thank you, I'm realising that it is the fact he wont let me in. I kept thinking what is so wrong with me that he wouldn't let me do that. Now I see it's his issue. I would like to help him and try to get past this together if that is possible.

@JinglingHellsBells I haven't had a Frank chat about it, but upon asking why he wont come in me he said sometimes he can't. To me that tells me he was able to at some point but cant with me as he never has. And that brings me right on round to "it must be me" which I'm trying to get past.[/quote]
I don’t understand your viewpoint that him not wanting to do something sexually (either ejaculate inside you or have you masturbate him) means that there is anything wrong with you. If a man came on here to say “my girlfriend doesn’t want me to masturbate her, how do I convince her that she lets me do it” he would be told in no uncertain term that he shouldn’t. He can either talk about why she doesn’t want to, walk away, or stay knowing she is uncomfortable with him touching her in that way. Those are also your options.

When did you DP have cancer? Have you talked openly about the side effects he has noticed? Could it be that he could ejaculate inside someone pre-chemo and now can’t ? You also say you can never make yourself come, so how long does sex usually last? Does he ever do any form of foreplay or focuses on you during sex? Do you give instructions? You say you don’t feel like you should have to ask for things in bed but I think you are wrong. Everyone has their sexual past and what he is used to might (and in this case, quite obviously) isn’t what you want. He isn’t a mind reader, and if there are things you need and want in bed it’s important you vocalize them. He obviously has no issue telling you what he wants/doesn’t want in bed, so why not do the same? But honestly it simply seem like you aren’t compatible and that unless he will have sex without condoms, ejaculating inside of you etc... you won’t fully feel like you have the sexual experience you want or need to feel fulfilled, which is fair but probably mean it won’t ever work out.

@agelikewine no I dont believe so, hes never mentioned it and I would assume if that was the reason he would be truthful about it.

@morefun I'm realising the condom isn't the issue at all, though it would still be nice. I wish I could satisfy him, even just a little bit. It is all getting me down the more I'm thinking about it and it's starting to make me feel angry

And don't you wish he would satisfy you, too?

If he can't come in you with the condom on, why the fuck doesn't he carry on until you come and then wank? Don't you ask him to carry on when he goes to pull out and you're into it but not there yet? You need to talk to him. And you need to totally separate the two issues you have. Him wearing a condom no matter what, is a fucking brilliant idea if he's not prepared to have a baby. It's his only control over it, and he's taking it. Bloody good for him, and the fact it doubles up with your implant is great, it doesn't negate the need, it brings the risk down further. Accept this. But talk to him about being selfish in bed.

[quote JinglingHellsBells]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras Look, we are all finding life hard at the moment but is there any need to add to it with your sarcy comments? It's not exactly in the spirit of things is it? And it's not showing you in a good light.

If you want to discuss this topic sensibly and like an adult, that's fine. If you want to get into some insult war, choose another poster.

As for the actual topic.

It is my opinion -which the OP and her boyfriend can take or leave- you do realise posts here are opinions- (with which you may not agree of course) that as the first post was about his fear of pregnancy, that he doesn't want children, and he may be infertile, the most obvious thing for a mature adult male (who is going to have sex for decades) would be to find out his fertility.

That's no different for a woman, or for women around menopause who want to ditch condoms or other contraception.

Apart from repeating yourself again, why is that such an issue for you?

It's bang on what the OP's first post was all about- his fear of a pregnancy, yet he could be infertile.
So what's the obvious step for him to take?

Of course it's his choice. But it would seem a rational step if his fear of PG is ruining a relationship.[/quote]
Don't talk to me about posting in the spirit of. You haven't minded making homophobic comments but now seek to lecture other posters??

He doesn't have to find out about his fertility, at all. He's been honest about saying he could be infertile and that he might never want children. He isn't leading op on knowing that she wants children. There's no reason for him to find out about his fertility. He wants to use condoms - that's entirely his choice. Op can decide if she accepts that, or not - entirely her choice.

As for a woman approaching menopause - I think you've got it back to front. If a man decides he doesn't want to use condoms but the woman isn't sure about her fertility then she could have it checked before deciding to agree to no condoms. In this case, op has offered no condoms but he doesn't accept.

Maybe he fears catching an STI as well as pregnancy?Maybe he wants to.practice safe sex? Good for him. Maybe he doesn't want to psychologically accept that he is definitely infertile and so would rather not know? Maybe he's afraid that having been told he's infertile he suddenly regains some fertility and ends up a father when he doesn't want to be? As a man his options are limited. If he were a woman he could have a coil, an implant or the pill and never have to tell a partner but because he's a man it's obvious to partners that he's using contraception. Ultimately if op has got a problem with it she can choose to walk away,not make him do something he doesn't want to do.

Yes, I was with someone who sometimes took the time to help me achieve orgasm. Toys after sex and oral/fingers before depending on the mood. The other times I was satisfied I could make him come.

I'm glad you've at least experienced somebody who could could make you come :)

Now I promise you... there are men, a great many of them, who absolutely delight in getting their partners to climax. You know the satisfaction you get from making them come? There are men who take it personally if they haven't managed to leave you in a quivvering post coiltal bliss state. Who will ask if they're not 100% sure that you did come when you did 5 times already and thought it was bloody obvious and keep you going back there until you beg them to stop.

I promise you that these men aren't rare. I can totally understand it if you think that - i did too, I really have been there

After thinking about it, just being able to help him and him help me after is what I feel is missing.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there xxx

I feel like I'm flipping back and forward between two different issues, but ultimately I just want to be the one to make him orgasm and to have some effort spent on me by any means necessary. I want that reassurance that I am enough and he's not repulsed by my body. And now I see I'm not getting that

That's true too xxx

^Is there any compromises I could suggest? I know a talk is needed.*

I don't like the word compromise here... you're either getting satisfaction from sex (and the most obvious way of measuring that is orgasm, although i get that it's more nuanced than that) or you're not, I don't think a compromise of you feel more turned on before you don't climax is a happy ending no pun intended.

You want to feel that he finds you sexy and desirable, and you want equal attention to your needs in bed.

Neither of those things are in any way unreasonable.

A lover who isn't turned on by you, is SO not worthy of the most intimate act with you. You are the prize, as they say in the dating threads - if it's not an honour and a privilege and a downright hot turn on to be allowed access to the delicious golden gates between your thighs, then he doesn't deserve access, simple.

It's 2020, the world still has many problems but women are fairly sexually liberated now. We can expect to climax at least once during each sex session - and we have capacity for multiple.

A talk is needed, you're right. Actually, an ongoing dialogue that once you're into it neither one should feel like they want to end it. The never ending exploration of what turns each of you on. It's delicious, and hilarious, and hot, and embarrassing, and intimate, and experimental and all the things. I promise you, that both partners exploring "how can I turn you on" can only lead to fucking amazing sex and emotional intimacy.

I think the conversation you and he need first though, is more difficult. It's about why your sexual pleasure and satisfaction have never been his priority. Does he think it's fair that sex always ends in his orgasm and never in both? Does he just not know how and is embarrassed to try, say or ask?

For you, yourself - have a think about why you're so ready to accept a lover who never even tries to bring you to climax. Have a think about why you've never asked out loud in words for what you want (if that's true)? That could be the starting point for your conversation with him. "Hey love I realise I've never asked for what I want in bed so I'm going to start now. I want you to make me come tonight with your fingers and your tongue. I want you to explore with me what turns me on. Would you be up for that?" You could even say (if it's true) that you don't know what turns you on, but you'd like to play around with him to find out. (I've heard good things about OMGyes if you want ideas for specific moves and a format) Most men would be driven wild by the idea that you want them to turn you on and you want to give them directions and instructions. If he isn't... it might be uncomfortable truth time. It would definitely be time to have that conversation about him always climaxing and him never even trying with you.

Good luck with everything

There is something very controlling and cruel about withdrawing just as your partner is enjoying sex, then wanking next to her. I can’t understand the mindset of that. I am sorry but I would have ended it long ago, it is an emotional disengagement as well as a physical one.
I can’t tell you if he is gay, has sexual issues for another reason, or what, but this the the road to misery. How old are you OP ? You sound twenties? You have a lot of future in which to have lovely, loving sex with someone who adores you. I agree with the pp who called this “soul destroying “ . It will shatter all your confidence in yourself sexually.
Really, why continue ? He is not a “very kind” man if he cares so little about this . Sex takes two.

Don't talk to me about posting in the spirit of. You haven't minded making homophobic comments but now seek to lecture other posters??

Well said @Hearhoovesthinkzebras

I won't have anyone tell me not to call out homophobia, when it's as plain as the nose on your face.

@tenlittlecygnets

And to me it sounds like he can only come using a death grip after watching too much porn. Sorry.

It wouldn't surprise me.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz no he hasn't.

@tenlittlecygnets thank you for your suggestions. I will take them fully on board.

@hearhoovesthinkzebras if I have said that, I didnt mean it in that way. It's that I can't even touch his penis. When I do he moves my hand out the way and carries on. I know I cant make him tell me, but it would be helpful for him to tell me what is so wrong with me just touching him. And @Linning 6 years ago and when I talk to him about the treatment he doesn't really like talking about it. Believe it or not I do respect him and it is a very sensitive topic for him. He's given me basic info on his chemo. It could full well be that he was able to ejaculate before, I didnt think of that so thank you for pointing that out. Sex itself usually last about 30 minutes before he starts masturbating. No he doesn't do any foreplay, there's a lot of kissing and we get straight into it. We do change positions often during sex mainly because he gets tired so I get on top. I didnt think about him might not knowing what to do. Giving directions isn't my strong point and I assumed it was obvious. I guess I could be more active in telling him what i like? And at this moment in time it would be nice to be able to even touch him! But thank you for pointing out some important points.

Is he Catholic?

It's that I can't even touch his penis. When I do he moves my hand out the way and carries on.

Maybe he's got really good reasons why he doesn't want you to touch him though? There have been many posts on MN from women who don't want to be touched in a certain way, don't want oral sex etc. I've never seen any posters tell them that they are wrong or that they owe it to their partner to let them do it anyway. I really do think it's up to him to set his own boundaries for what he lets you do to him.

No he doesn't do any foreplay, there's a lot of kissing and we get straight into it.

If one of my male mates told me he went straight from kissing to PIV I would take them for a quiet word about how that just does NOT do it for women.

I didnt think about him might not knowing what to do. Giving directions isn't my strong point and I assumed it was obvious. I guess I could be more active in telling him what i like?

Definitely get better and asking for what you want in words. "Touch me first please" for example. He doesn't have a women's body and he can't read your mind, so directing him to what you do like is perfectly reasonable and normal

Maybe he's got really good reasons why he doesn't want you to touch him though?

Wouldn't it be helpful to them both if they talked about it