To be hurt by this

[sensitiveorright]

I am fully prepared to be told I'm being unreasonable but this feels so shit and I don't know if it's me or it's not very nice

So I have two children and live in the uk.

My parents are expats and have moved between a few countries. At the moment they live in Switzerland. I have lived there before as a teenager, I love it.

I am now 27, almost 28.

My sister lives in the UK too.

My parents have not made any noises about settling back into England, to be closer to the family.

I haven't seen my parents since Boxing Day. They came for Christmas to the UK and it was so nice to not have to travel with a baby and a toddler. They don't have space for us in their home in Switzerland so it's easier if we stay in an air bnb etc.
Last week my sister was finally able to go to Switzerland and see them. She had a really good time. I couldn't go with the kids because there's not enough space for us there.
They haven't made plans to come to England yet.
I said I was hoping to visit them in the 2nd week of July and they then sprung it on me that they are going to their holiday home in Italy. For 2.5 weeks. Well it's emerged it's actually 4 weeks.
There's also not enough space for me in their apartment there either with the kids and my husband. So they then decided to invite me to Italy with my kids but notmy husband as there would then be enough space?
I can't fly alone with a child and my baby. Obviously. My 4 year old is really naughty and it's a struggle with my husband and I to control him.
Then I was told to come with my sister so I said fine I will do that and work around her dates,
Then I was told my sister would fly out with me but not back with me? Then I was told my sister and her boyfriend are going I would stay a week then fly back alone with the boys? So I would basically be not welcome to stay with her and her boyfriend after my parents left
They all seem to think flyling alone with a baby who's not walking a 4 year old who is extremely naughty is possible? How would I take the 4 year old to the toilet how would I get the suitcases?
I feel upset that the sister and boyfriend are basically going together so I feel like the third wheel with my family
I feel offended they have decided to spend a month in Italy before coming to see me
I feel offended we were invited as an after thought
I feel offended it was asked why it's a big deal to travel with them? I honestly think they live in cuckoo world because I have chronic pain issues with damage in my back and holding a child for a legnth of time whilst holding nappy bags and a 4 year olds hand who's trying to run off is shit
I don't want to go off and leave my husband behind and be in the sun with them?
If there was no space for my husband how come my sister and her boyfriend can now miraculously fit in?
They said it was like always their plan but it's nonsense
They have etched out the longest possible stay with zero intention of coming here to see me
I don't have the money to fly around everywehre and see them
I said I can go to Switzerland to see them
I said I can go to Switzerland and when they come back from Italy see them (to be told I'll be working so can only see you in the evening?)
I said I can go before they go to Italy but was told they will be working
So for them unless I go to Italy for those specific 6 days it doesn't work

AIBU to behurt And cross and think fuck then

@randomer ‘sisterhood’ has nothing to do with it, I’m not going to echo the OP because we share the same body parts. I gave an example of how other people manage to travel with young children and I won’t apologise for that. I think the OP is looking for people to feel sorry for her and tell her these things are as impossible as she has convinced herself they are. I tend to find that when how I think about something is challenged, I find solutions to my problems.

@LoadOfOldTosh, when you live with a disability, you know what you are and aren't capable of. No amount of positive thinking will change that. I've become disabled and been through counselling. One of the first things and the most helpful is acceptance. Having a different viewpoint doesn't change what your body can do.

Since this pandemic, I've vowed to now take more time for me. I'll be holidaying without my GC and having more days out, because unless there's a vaccine, then some of us can possibly forget lifespan that we expected.

While I can't imagine living in a different country than my children, I can see why wider family don't want to accommodate children so young.

The OP’s “problem” is her parents excluding her husband from family holidays (while permitting other siblings to bring boyfriends). The problem isn’t her not wanting to cause herself pain or further damage by travelling alone; that’s not the problem that requires a solution.

There have been legit solutions given here, eg rent a flat for all of you, wait until the parents can visit.

[quote Ponoka7]@LoadOfOldTosh, when you live with a disability, you know what you are and aren't capable of. No amount of positive thinking will change that. I've become disabled and been through counselling. One of the first things and the most helpful is acceptance. Having a different viewpoint doesn't change what your body can do.

Since this pandemic, I've vowed to now take more time for me. I'll be holidaying without my GC and having more days out, because unless there's a vaccine, then some of us can possibly forget lifespan that we expected.

While I can't imagine living in a different country than my children, I can see why wider family don't want to accommodate children so young.[/quote]
@Ponika You have no idea whether I have a disability or not and, in fact, I do. The OP made more of her 'extremely naughty' four year old than she did of her back problem and there are certainly ways to help with his running off which she specifically mentioned. I'm not saying that a positive attitude can change every situation but it can definitely make things easier in many. Anyway, as I said, OP can go or not go, the decision is hers and she knows whether she's prepared to take it on or not. My comments about her ageist comments stand.

@elenacampana, chronic ie never ending back pain is not something that can be beaten by a can do attitiude. A four year old and a baby on a plane traveling to people who don't really want to engage with you? Er no.

Would you fancy going alone, Op?

Yanbu especially as they won't have your dh there (but will your sister's bf) and they know you have chronic pain from back damage.

They sound like they are putting obstacles in place and are not interested in you or your family. Sorry OP. The 'that doesn't work for us' is the best text, just don't apologise or suggest more meet ups.

It sounds as though their plans won't work for you, and they're batting back all of your overtures/ suggestions to make it work, so just give up talking about it.

The back-and-forth, frustration and feelings of rejection will do more harm to your relationship in the long run than not seeing them for a period, even a relatively extended period. You can try again later, when your children are older, when your pain is more under control, when travel is less restricted, but for now, you need to keep changing the subject, not being drawn into discussions which will make you feel worse, etc.

Have you heard of the "grey rock" technique?

@randomer

I think I saw the same woman too, but her cardigan was on inside out 😂😂😂

The message I've posted is about my feelings nothing else

My back is profoundly damaged from a nephrostomy that went v wrong (this is so outing 😞)
And I take painkillers to manage the pain but it's still shit sometimes, especially when I have to stand still

Most 4 year olds are knobs. add into it a heavy baby and the fact it fucking hurts holding him and standing whilst negotiating with an arse child.. I don't fancy it when it's easier for my parents to come to me

But I feel more at peace after this thread
I honestly do

Thank you so much to those who have been incredibly understanding and supportive
I have felt lighter since I shared my problems xxx

@narrowboatgirl

Thing is it's an arse ache for me to go. Even if they pay for the flat. I don't want to go alone with the kids on the plane I want someone to come with me:
And I wish that I didn't have pain so it would be just basically psychological warfare with a four year old who can be v hard work

He's not actually that bad but I struggle with him and I just wish they would come here to margate to be with me instead of out of 8 weeks I basically siad I can meet up with them they plan an impromptu visit for a fucking month using all their annual leave to be in Italy

They know how intense it is travelling with kids

I don't know why they don't come here

It's the fact they pretend they are desperate to see us but they want me to do all the hard work

They have lived in 5 houses since I moved out 9 years ago and honestly if I followed them I would still be in Ireland not Switzerland...

Moving there isn't easy with work permit etc

I don't mind them doing their own thing it's the whole pretending being with us is vital plus expecting me to do the travel alone bit which bothers me

But I know you get it because you've been v understanding in your posts xxx

@Esspee I'm in agreement and have done it previously
Not during covid when I don't want to fly anyway and would rather drive, not to a v Italian place with no tourists during covid and also finally
Not when I'm having a dreadful flare up of pain

Otherwise I am ok to do it

@Esspee I'm in agreement and have done it previously
Not during covid when I don't want to fly anyway and would rather drive, not to a v Italian place with no tourists during covid and also finally
Not when I'm having a dreadful flare up of pain

Otherwise I am ok to do it

@crosspelican
I'm thinking of going alone
But then feel I'm just pandering to the fact they can't be arsed to come here...

I would still need to leave margate at 1 am to catch the plane from stansted

Also the other thing is I would normally go but haven't been able to have injections in my back and it's much worse then it normally is and finally
Social distancing means people won't want to help on the plane and nor would I want them to (understandably)

I think the bottom line is, it’s 100% your choice whether to go or not and no one should guilt you over your choice. It’s pretty clear from your thread title that you were looking for support in figuring out the best way to say no, rather than looking for practical solutions to be able to say yes, and people aren’t wrong to do the latter because some people are naturally solution-oriented, but it’s clear that’s not what you were asking for. I hope you’ve found some support in this thread. xx

@LoadOfOldTosh

You're missing the point
I'm saying they are in their prime and I'm missing out on it

They will be old in 10-15 years and not in their prime at 70 obviously
And I am gutted about it

Right now they are cleverer then me, braver then me, they are energetic, capable, beautiful, healthy, charming, funny...

List goes on

And I'm missing it because by the time I'm rich enough to move to Basel or by the time they move here

The goal posts will have changed

@LoadOfOldTosh

You're missing the point
I'm saying they are in their prime and I'm missing out on it

They will be old in 10-15 years and not in their prime at 70 obviously
And I am gutted about it

Right now they are cleverer then me, braver then me, they are energetic, capable, beautiful, healthy, charming, funny...

List goes on

And I'm missing it because by the time I'm rich enough to move to Basel or by the time they move here

The goal posts will have changed

I feel for you, OP. Rejection from your parents hurts, whatever the circumstances.

We holidayed with my mum last year - my DC were 1 and 7 (7 is not naughty but pretty full on). I’m sure it wasn’t the relaxing holiday she might also enjoy, but actually she had a different lovely time because she loves her grandchildren and me (nb it hasn’t always been an easy ride to get to this point!). She’s also not retired and not made of money, so that was her one summer holiday as it was ours, and I appreciate she needs her downtime. But she does have a fair whack of that, even with a demanding full time job. And again, she wants to see us, even though we are usually exhausting and probably often annoying too.

The stuff about naughty 4 year olds and bad backs and viability of flying etc is neither here nor there, IMO (I’m a single parent and wouldn’t bat an eyelid at the kids of those ages, luggage etc, but I don’t have a bad back...). You feel, justifiably, like your parents don’t really want you and your children as you are right now, of course that hurts.

Probably telling them to fuck off isn’t ideal. Probably leaving it to fester doesn’t help.

MN is weirdly full of parents who actually don’t like children very much, and seem to perceive their own children as a cross they must bear (same as all those ‘when I have grandchildren I will never help at all’ threads), so perhaps posts like that provide a better insight into the way your parents think and feel, but I don’t think it’s as normal as the people spouting it on here often imply. If my children have DC of their own, I’d love to spend time with them and help them out a bit; I would expect to actually enjoy them, even at those irksomely childish ages!

Right now they are cleverer then me, braver then me,

Oh, I am so sure that’s not true. I’m Sure you are both those things and a thousand other wonderful qualities. You’re dealing with chronic pain, and a baby; both those things do a number on your self-confidence, cause you to lose sleep, get brain fog, etc. Give yourself a break. I’m sure you’re a much stronger person than you give yourself credit for.

@eggandonion

Love your message xxx thanks xx

Please please please find a therapist. Its far from ideal meeting via zoom or phone counselling but please I beg you, you can't carry on. There is no " arse child". You are in pain, you are damaging yourself and others.

Forget flights and destinations and holiday homes and expats. For the love of God, look to yourself and your health and those 2 children.

@sensitiveorright I'm not missing the point, your comments were ageist.

I may be reading it wrong but it sounds like you expect them to provide accommodation in Italy? You mention having a house/ car/ van/ business and at 27 I would think it's really reasonable of them to think that if you want more accommodation than they have, you book somewhere for yourself. Then your DH can go. Why is it their responsibility to sort that out? It doesn't sound like they don't want him there just that they are offering a bed for 2 to each you and your sister. I think it's really, really unreasonable to take offence at your sister wanting a holiday alone with her boyfriend. I think it's also unreasonable to not value your parents need for a holiday too. You may be sad that they are not more interested in seeing you than they appear to be (I totally get that BTW, as I have a family who don't give a shit and it's painful to face) but you are focusing this anguish in the wrong place. They don't have to prove they love you by doing what suits you, at other's expenses, in this specific incidence. But I feel your pain at them being so happy to leave is to long between visits.

@LoadOfOldTosh
No they aren't

You're insecure about your age

Is your sister younger than you?

No they aren't
You're insecure about your age

You were absolutely being ageist (you're in your 20s, right? give it a few years)
Frankly you sound a lot whiny, and I'm guessing your chronic back pain is a large cause of it. Your priority should be getting that sorted out, and then thinking about holidays or not.

But you are a grown woman with a house and a business, a partner and children. You may have to accept that your parents just don't feel the need to see you that often. It hurts, but instead of letting it consume you, you need to find a way to accept and live with it.