To be hurt by this

[sensitiveorright]

I am fully prepared to be told I'm being unreasonable but this feels so shit and I don't know if it's me or it's not very nice

So I have two children and live in the uk.

My parents are expats and have moved between a few countries. At the moment they live in Switzerland. I have lived there before as a teenager, I love it.

I am now 27, almost 28.

My sister lives in the UK too.

My parents have not made any noises about settling back into England, to be closer to the family.

I haven't seen my parents since Boxing Day. They came for Christmas to the UK and it was so nice to not have to travel with a baby and a toddler. They don't have space for us in their home in Switzerland so it's easier if we stay in an air bnb etc.
Last week my sister was finally able to go to Switzerland and see them. She had a really good time. I couldn't go with the kids because there's not enough space for us there.
They haven't made plans to come to England yet.
I said I was hoping to visit them in the 2nd week of July and they then sprung it on me that they are going to their holiday home in Italy. For 2.5 weeks. Well it's emerged it's actually 4 weeks.
There's also not enough space for me in their apartment there either with the kids and my husband. So they then decided to invite me to Italy with my kids but notmy husband as there would then be enough space?
I can't fly alone with a child and my baby. Obviously. My 4 year old is really naughty and it's a struggle with my husband and I to control him.
Then I was told to come with my sister so I said fine I will do that and work around her dates,
Then I was told my sister would fly out with me but not back with me? Then I was told my sister and her boyfriend are going I would stay a week then fly back alone with the boys? So I would basically be not welcome to stay with her and her boyfriend after my parents left
They all seem to think flyling alone with a baby who's not walking a 4 year old who is extremely naughty is possible? How would I take the 4 year old to the toilet how would I get the suitcases?
I feel upset that the sister and boyfriend are basically going together so I feel like the third wheel with my family
I feel offended they have decided to spend a month in Italy before coming to see me
I feel offended we were invited as an after thought
I feel offended it was asked why it's a big deal to travel with them? I honestly think they live in cuckoo world because I have chronic pain issues with damage in my back and holding a child for a legnth of time whilst holding nappy bags and a 4 year olds hand who's trying to run off is shit
I don't want to go off and leave my husband behind and be in the sun with them?
If there was no space for my husband how come my sister and her boyfriend can now miraculously fit in?
They said it was like always their plan but it's nonsense
They have etched out the longest possible stay with zero intention of coming here to see me
I don't have the money to fly around everywehre and see them
I said I can go to Switzerland to see them
I said I can go to Switzerland and when they come back from Italy see them (to be told I'll be working so can only see you in the evening?)
I said I can go before they go to Italy but was told they will be working
So for them unless I go to Italy for those specific 6 days it doesn't work

AIBU to behurt And cross and think fuck then

I think this isn't really about logistics as much as family dynamics, and it can really hurt to feel you are not being made to feel important by your parents, or that another sibling is being treated preferentially. Trust me, I've been there!

Even if you did manage to make some arrangement to get there etc I don't think you would enjoy it. As much as they want to see their grandchildren, if you didn't mind being apart from your own children for a short while, I would go childless and enjoy a bit of freedom. This is what I did when I went to visit my expat sibling and it was absolute bliss (and the children 1 and 5 at the time were absolutely fine with their dad).

Ps @MaybeDoctor thanks for your post, it really struck a chord with me

I think most people are pretty much alligned that nobody is BU here and it's just one of those thigs.

The people who think the expat family are horrible (and worse!) are weird. The set-up wasn't unknown to the OP when she had children, and as other PP said nobody really has to live their life to please other family members, we all make decisions to suit ourselves for the most part.

I don't think anyone in this situation is awful. Both the OP's parents are still working fulltime at their advanced ages and probably want a holiday as most of us do to relax and re-charge.

This with knobs on. I'm 56 and when I finally get my longed for couple of weeks off nobody under the age of 20 will feature at all.

Your parents are still young and working. That makes it even worse that you seem to think they need to fit in to suit you. They are not retired with all time in the world but have annual leave and so on and probably want an actual break rather than to spend their time running around after a boisterous 4 year old.

Frankly they are still living their lives. Maybe when they retire they will be the grandparents you want them to be.

Do not assume they will want to move back. They are building their lives elsewhere. Maybe when retired they will have more time to pop back over here to visit.

I assumed OP was meaning the grandparents are in their fifties, not early thirties. I only flew once with a baby on my own, assuming OP would have the baby on her lap on a Ryanair flight and has a bad back, I don't think it would be pleasant
I wouldn't really want to fly just now - wearing a mask in an airport, then on a plane, juggling a baby and dealing with a toddler who wants a wee would be hell. Air B and B in Switzerland would cost a fortune.
Go on a short break to a cottage somewhere, exhaust the toddler, order takeaway. (Take a tube of superglue and a magic sponge, a busy toddler in a cottage will find things to do).

The logistics along sound bloody exhausting. This is not the summer to be tackling multi-change journeys, even without a back problem, two children and a suitcase of fury.

There's no magic wand that will turn this situation into a holiday that you, your parents and your sister all want, so in your position I'd just spend the flight money on massages and gin, and see what the autumn brings.

At the age of 55 I still actually have school age kids. I don't consider myself to be old.

@narrowboatgirl

LoadOfOldTosh numerous posters have claimed that the OP is being unreasonable to struggle with traveling solo with two children, on the grounds that they personally cope just fine travelling alone with children. Ignoring the fact that having a disability/medical impairment/chronic pain is a massive barrier and that the experience of travelling (or doing anything) with an impairment is not relevant to the experience of an able-bodied person doing the same thing.

I am disabled and am constantly lectured and policed by able-bodied people who think if they can do something, everyone should be able to. That’s the definition of ableism.

Asking someone who is crowing sanctimoniously that they can do X just fine so a disabled person claiming they can’t do X is being unreasonable, whether they actually are disabled (and thus qualified to comment on the experience of travelling with an impairment) is perfectly reasonable.

@narrowboatgirl If you read my post I did not say any of the things you mention - I said that with a little thought and a positive attitude, she might be able to manage what she had said is impossible. The OP sounds as though she is feeling very negative at the moment (this is not a criticism) and she might find that if she can let go of this and rethink the situation, she might be able to see a way to make the journey to visit her parents. Whether she goes or not though is up to her. What does concern me though is her description of her parents becoming 'old and crumbly' (and bear in mind that these people are 56 years old!) I find this ageism really offensive and objectionable.

I live abroad and I totally see both sides. All of a sudden travel can happen again and they want to go to their holiday home. I also understand that your sister and her partner want time alone for the second week.

It really is just a short flight I have done it alone with two Sen children many times. It's not easy but it's doable , just take one case

I do think you're being unreasonable about this tbh

Thanks, you are welcome. Though I admit that I worked through quite a bit of pain to get to my present point!

I saw my surviving parent (now very elderly) in the early spring. To do this I left my family at home, drove 250+ miles, stayed overnight in a hotel, met them for lunch, we had pleasant chat for couple of hours, then they were completely ready to say good-bye and go. That was all the interaction they wanted and, you know what? It was completely fine with me too and I enjoyed the meeting for what it was. There was no resentment on either side because we have both arrived in a place of accepting what the other is willing to give.

Just don’t go. You’ll be stressed about it the whole time and possibly in pain, upset - what’s the point? You’re an adult now. You get to fuck off plans you don’t want to do.

They all seem to think flyling alone with a baby who's not walking a 4 year old who is extremely naughty is possible?

Well it is possible. I’ve done it with a 2mo old and 3 yo long haul, with connecting flight. I simply told airline I needed assistance and everything went very smoothly. I’m not a VIP 1st class flyer either. This was economy.

But I do agree that they’re not making much effort to see you. But then you saw them less than a year ago? Not sure why you feel such a need to see them so often.

It really stands out to me that you miss your family, OP. You sound hurt that they are spending a month in Italy and not coming to see you in the UK. I understand the disappointment. I just wonder if the current situation affected their decisions about where to travel this summer? It wasn't that long ago that they would have been expected to self isolate on arrival into the UK. Maybe they made their plans around that?

I wonder if you can take the emotion out of it and look at your practical options. It does sound as though your family would like to see you too, but the practicalities aren't working. I personally wouldn't feel pressured to make a journey that you feel would be too difficult - anyone else's opinion on how manageable it would be don't really matter too much if it is too much for you. They say they would welcome you in Switzerland but would be working... so it is really up to you whether it is worth the effort to drive there to see them around their work?

Other than that, maybe put the next get together in the diary - whenever that will be - so that you have something to look forward to?

YANBU to feel hurt by this - they are not seeming to make any compromises to their schedule, and that is of course hurtful when you've not seen them in so long. Only you can know if it's because they find your DC stressful, if they like an 'adults only' holiday or if they are just generally self-absorbed or what. But I would suggest to let that go and focus on what works for you.

I'd agree with you about driving to Switzerland - it would be FAR easier for you (esp if coming from Margate, it's only an hour or so to Folkestone). I've lived in Switzerland for years, and the majority of people I know here who go to the UK with young children, prefer to drive. Could you travel to cover a weekend so that you get that much time with them, and then spend the other days sightseeing - also easier with your own car. Most Swiss cities and towns have outdoor pools which are lovely and a cheap way to spend the day, as are the parks.

When my sister visits me with her two DC (she comes alone as they take a family holiday when her DH takes holidays - visiting me is a 'bonus'!), they usually spend the days at the pool or zoo and I start and finish work early so as to join them, then sit on the balcony chatting with her with some wine when they've gone to bed. They usually come for ten days or so, and I usually can take two or three days off work, but not more as I also need holidays for travelling home to visit family and my own holidays.

Well LoadOfOldTosh I find ableism very offensive. Disabled people are constantly lectured for not having a “positive attitude” and told that they could do certain things if they “worked harder” or “really wanted it” or “were less negative.”

I’ve been told I could easily leave my wheelchair if I had a “more positive attitude” a dozen times!

People with impairment/chronic conditions know their own bodies and limitations better than anyone. Yet our right to bodily autonomy is constantly overridden by people who think they know best, when they have no experience of what it’s like to operate in the world with impairment. I cannot tell you how many times able-bodied people have tried to bully me into doing things that I know for a fact would cause pain or damage, then attacked me as “negative” for not rolling over but rather standing up for myself and my own needs.

If the OP feels that her chronic pain means that traveling alone with two kids would be too high a barrier for her, that’s her decision to make and she shouldn’t be bullied and lectured. And there’s absolutely no reason she has to make the trip alone, other than her parents strange demand that her husband be excluded from a family trip.

THEIR LOSS. You have 2 great kids (one of whom is ‘working on’ his behaviour ) and your parents are missing out on building a stronger relationship with their grandchildren. That’s their right of course, but in my opinion it’s their loss.

YANBU to feel hurt.

@narrowboatgirl

Well LoadOfOldTosh I find ableism very offensive. Disabled people are constantly lectured for not having a “positive attitude” and told that they could do certain things if they “worked harder” or “really wanted it” or “were less negative.”

I’ve been told I could easily leave my wheelchair if I had a “more positive attitude” a dozen times!

People with impairment/chronic conditions know their own bodies and limitations better than anyone. Yet our right to bodily autonomy is constantly overridden by people who think they know best, when they have no experience of what it’s like to operate in the world with impairment. I cannot tell you how many times able-bodied people have tried to bully me into doing things that I know for a fact would cause pain or damage, then attacked me as “negative” for not rolling over but rather standing up for myself and my own needs.

If the OP feels that her chronic pain means that traveling alone with two kids would be too high a barrier for her, that’s her decision to make and she shouldn’t be bullied and lectured. And there’s absolutely no reason she has to make the trip alone, other than her parents strange demand that her husband be excluded from a family trip.

@narrowboatgirl. I acknowledge what you're saying but I think you're having a go at the wrong person. I've never said the things you're accusing me of, neither here nor irl. I suggested some reflection on the situation to see if it could help OP in forming a different viewpoint, but that is all. My criticism of her post was of the blatant ageism and that criticism stands.

Oh goodness, I'm the same age as your parents & have a friend with 2 kids younger than your oldest!

Could you not go to Italy-all 4 of you & stay nearby?

Very few people have the space to put up a family.

You have a holiday & see them as & when-well the same could apply to you going to Switzerland to visit.

People's lives continue-they can't always be available 24/7 for visitors.

That said, it does seem as if the effort all comes from you.

But I can also see that if they are both working then they don't want o spend holidays just visiting family.

I started hoiking up my bra when I read that you "obviously" couldn't travel with two children, but after reading your whole post + updates, I would be annoyed too and definitely wouldn't go with the kids.

BUT

Would you not go on your own? It goes without saying that you could do with a break. Do they really not want you to come alone?

We're slightly older than the grandparents and our holiday this year involves visiting family, and having trips nearby. If I had grandchildren (two of my kids are older than OP) they'd be part of the equation too.
Could you visit them at midterm if your spirited child is starting school?

I agree with the majority that there is no way I would be making any effort to visit them. They clearly don’t care.
I do want to pull you up on your attitude to travelling with children. I have clocked up an obscene amount of air miles - the flights ranging from 5,000 miles to 12,000 miles with children and always on my own. I never had any problems. The airline staff are great at taking over to let you go to the toilet and often other passengers love holding a baby for five minutes. I used a sling for the newborn and reins on the two year old during the worst age gap.

I never flew long haul on my own with small children, only Ryanair. While I'm quite happy to fly with them, the staff don't seem to have much time or space to help on a crowded flight. Long haul staff seem more able to help. (This is only observation).

You sound quite difficult and demanding to me OP.

Also, I once saw a woman travel alone with her highly spirited toddler triplets - that was hard work, especially given that the plane had rows of three seats only, but she managed it.

You also sound like you begrudge your parents living a care free retirement and that’s a shame.

@elenacampana, ah isn't sisterhood a wonderous thing. I once saw a woman traveling with 2 broken legs, 5 kids under 6 and a chicken tucked under her arm. And she still had time to smooth down her size 8 linen dress and apply her makeup.

The parents aren't retired, they are busily working full time. If they were retired and wealthy, they could pop over any time. If they wanted to.
Do they allow you to use the holiday home? Could you use it in September and they could visit for a weekend?