To be hurt by this

[sensitiveorright]

I am fully prepared to be told I'm being unreasonable but this feels so shit and I don't know if it's me or it's not very nice

So I have two children and live in the uk.

My parents are expats and have moved between a few countries. At the moment they live in Switzerland. I have lived there before as a teenager, I love it.

I am now 27, almost 28.

My sister lives in the UK too.

My parents have not made any noises about settling back into England, to be closer to the family.

I haven't seen my parents since Boxing Day. They came for Christmas to the UK and it was so nice to not have to travel with a baby and a toddler. They don't have space for us in their home in Switzerland so it's easier if we stay in an air bnb etc.
Last week my sister was finally able to go to Switzerland and see them. She had a really good time. I couldn't go with the kids because there's not enough space for us there.
They haven't made plans to come to England yet.
I said I was hoping to visit them in the 2nd week of July and they then sprung it on me that they are going to their holiday home in Italy. For 2.5 weeks. Well it's emerged it's actually 4 weeks.
There's also not enough space for me in their apartment there either with the kids and my husband. So they then decided to invite me to Italy with my kids but notmy husband as there would then be enough space?
I can't fly alone with a child and my baby. Obviously. My 4 year old is really naughty and it's a struggle with my husband and I to control him.
Then I was told to come with my sister so I said fine I will do that and work around her dates,
Then I was told my sister would fly out with me but not back with me? Then I was told my sister and her boyfriend are going I would stay a week then fly back alone with the boys? So I would basically be not welcome to stay with her and her boyfriend after my parents left
They all seem to think flyling alone with a baby who's not walking a 4 year old who is extremely naughty is possible? How would I take the 4 year old to the toilet how would I get the suitcases?
I feel upset that the sister and boyfriend are basically going together so I feel like the third wheel with my family
I feel offended they have decided to spend a month in Italy before coming to see me
I feel offended we were invited as an after thought
I feel offended it was asked why it's a big deal to travel with them? I honestly think they live in cuckoo world because I have chronic pain issues with damage in my back and holding a child for a legnth of time whilst holding nappy bags and a 4 year olds hand who's trying to run off is shit
I don't want to go off and leave my husband behind and be in the sun with them?
If there was no space for my husband how come my sister and her boyfriend can now miraculously fit in?
They said it was like always their plan but it's nonsense
They have etched out the longest possible stay with zero intention of coming here to see me
I don't have the money to fly around everywehre and see them
I said I can go to Switzerland to see them
I said I can go to Switzerland and when they come back from Italy see them (to be told I'll be working so can only see you in the evening?)
I said I can go before they go to Italy but was told they will be working
So for them unless I go to Italy for those specific 6 days it doesn't work

AIBU to behurt And cross and think fuck then

sorry, i missed the back pain thing. I don't think any of you are BU, to be honest.

It doesn't work for all of you this time. Maybe next time. Do you have money to get an overnight hotel at Stanstead so the early flight isn't such an issue? Could you and your DH & DC stay at a B&B or something when you get there?

@Brefugee

YANBU to be hurt, but YABU for wanting everyone to do everything your way.

Frankly I wouldn't want to have a naughty 4 year old around either if I had grown up children. Those days are over for me.

I can't fly alone with a child and my baby. Obviously.

It's not actually obvious, but if you don't think you can, don't do it.

Explain to your parents how hurt you are, if you like, but they probably feel they've offered enough alternatives.

I agree with all of this.

I don't really understand why you said My parents have not made any noises about settling back into England, to be closer to the family.? Do you think they should move to England @sensitiveorright?

I also think your parents aren’t that bothered in seeing you as your lifestyle doesn’t fit in with theirs.

I do think you need to ignore a lot of the bad behaviour of your 4 year old as long as he isn’t harming his sibling or himself then I would ignore the ripping wall paper etc

You know the cause so I would try to concentrate on that aspect. Maybe putting him in the position of being the older brother, giving him “jobs” to do and helping you out with your 1 year olds care. E.g. passing you things to help with changing, playing together with you and his sibling etc.
If you can show him that if he is good and helps put his sibling to bed then he gets to stay up later like the big brother he is and gets the undivided attention he craves.
The more he helps out the more time he gets with you. The more naughty he is then the less time you can give him as it takes longer to put his sibling to bed.

I would put your lack of family contact to the back of your mind and concentrate on your own family and your 4 year olds behaviour.
It can’t have done him any good during lockdown where he hasn’t had the normal distractions of everyday life like nursery/school going out and doing stuff instead of being cooped up with his family where every single second of extra attention his brother gets over him is felt keenly

Randomer has it right. Look after your own needs and put your immediate family first. It’s hard when extended family don’t help as much as you would like, but they aren’t appearing to want to, so just let it go, for now. It is tough for you, emotionally, though. I’d plan something nice with your husband and offer your parents and sister an open invitation to stay at a hotel near yours, whenever they want to do so. Family don’t always come through for people, in the way we would all would want, unfortunately.

Honestly, I’d just say no. Don’t get in to discussions about why because it won’t change anything.

It is absolutely awful that they’ve invited you and explicitly not your husband. That alone is a good enough reason to decline the invite.

You have every right to feel hurt yes but my goodness, have you reread how many times you've written I, I, I?

I'm an expat and have a life too. I might live in a fun place in the sun but having visitors is hard work and must work around our schedule too. It sounds like you've come so self absorbed in being hurt and feeling rejected that you're coming across as hard work and whinging. Maybe that's why plans aren't going your way?

If you really want to make it happen, do it! Why don't you stay in an air bnb? Discuss sharing the cost with your wealthy parents if you must. Yes traveling with kids is hard but my god, you're not the only person in the world that needs to do it! Arrange help at the airport, it's not rocket science, it doesn't cost a fortune. Book yourself a car, at least that way your not dependent on anyone at anytime!

Stop banging on about everything that's not going your way and if you really want your kids to see your parents, you also need to make the effort to make it happen.

Sorry if that sounds like tough love. After 18 years overseas, I'm over family arguments about this stuff.

Things work 2 ways.

My parents claim to be in love with them

Maybe 23 is Young for affluent. 6 people from my year group have had children. But I have my own house, which is v nice and big enough, we have a car, a van, run a business and I just started another little business too
And yes family is really important to us

They love my husband but I think they want to have their special time with just their girls again and so they don't want to have the men there
But if they wanted to be closer to my and me then perhaps they should make more permanent choices to be in the UK

They arent that young they are 56

@LittleMissRedHat

I'll be honest, if your 4 year old is as naughty as you make them out to be, I'd be putting obstacles in your way too in the hope you didn't come. Sorry, but I'm really child intolerant (even though I have one of my own ) and the thought of having a naughty child with a mother that can't control them and a baby in what sounds like a small place sounds like an utter nightmare!

YANBU to be sad though.

Yeah, I suspect this may be at the heart of it.

Hi OP

I'm so sorry it does sound like they arent bothered about seeing you, or are bothered but not enough to give up their child free lifestyle and holidays.

I have flown on my own with a 3.5 and 1 year old, it's not exactly easy but not impossible. I just strapped the baby in a buggy and went into the disabled toilet. Pack light. Give the older child a rucksack with their favourite toys and games and a few new little ones. Take a few books they both like. Take a tablet pre loaded with some stuff to watch. The baby would probably nap. The airport security etc are all very helpful when you're on your own with kids. So if that was the only thing putting you off, I'd just grit my teeth and do it, however I wouldn't make the effort in your situation for people who wont make any effort for you

@camelsandcaramel

Really unhelpful post
I'm asking about my feelings not anyone else's

Demonstrates the mindset of expats tho!! Good job

Right Listen up OP

1. Some " back places" are opening up. I have seen an osteopath recently.
2. You have a baby, to care for.
3. You have a 4 year old, who I suspect is lovely but also a busy little character.
4. Your life and routines have been taken away from you at very short notice and replaced by this craziness known as the New Normal.
5. Your parents, for whatever reason, have decided to forge their own path which does not appear to include you or any kndly feelings towards their GC.
6. Listen to an oldie ( me) who spent many a long year trying to keep people happy and was stitched up like a kipper by way of thanks.
7. If funds allow, get a cleaner, get meals delivered, buy some perfume and forget the idea of going any where near a plane.

If you can't go you can't go. Sounds like you're upset they don't live in England and the world doesn't revolve around your unruly children.

I didn't really want to fly either hence saying I would drive to Switzerland using the eurotunnel

Ok I have to go give the kids attention now

Thank you everyone

Travelling with a baby and a naughty lo is workable i think but it is too difficult I admit definitely. Mine ran to the wrong gate, had tantrum on the airport floor, ate too many bribe candies l, watched loads of tablet 🙈 while i was 6 months pregnant, vomiting and luggage ing around and transits. Ive done couple of flying its hell and i will NEVER do that on my own.

BUT i dont expect parents or sister to help out by default.

YANBU for feeling hurt as it definitely come across as them not really trying. Soo many options and its the most hard one for you and none hard for them. So yes it does feel they are being inconsiderate. They do love you and your family but they are being inconsiderate. Yes I have such family lol they exist!

@randomer

Agree about all of this
Will contact chiropractor

I mostly want the injections in my back

The perfume will help

Why are you being defensive about having children young? My point was not whether or not it was the right thing for you, it was saying that based on averages your parents might reasonably not have expected to become grandparents at 52.

And I’m sorry but saying 56 is “not that young” and worrying about “the last few years before they get old and crumbly” - you are worse than my toddler who thinks that 30 is “really really old”.

OP I sympathise. My DH once said to me “Gogo you need to realise that your family don’t have to like our children. They don’t have to spend time with them and they’ll never love them like we do”. This was after yet another occasion when I felt let down by them and excluded from activities we couldn’t possibly participate in with our children in tow.
I’m glad he said this to me because he’s right and now my expectations are much lower.
We can’t participate in a lot of the things they organise because our children have additional medical needs and they never take that into consideration or make any adjustments to allow us to join.
It used to really upset me but now I’ve built up a support network away from them. The less I expect from them the less they let me down.

I agree with the posters saying tell your parents it’s too much for you right now and you’ll see them next time they are in the U.K. If it helps explain why. It won’t change their position but it might make you feel better. Oh and try and ignore the relationship they have with your sister. Comparing the two situations (which are different) won’t do anything other then upset you further.

Right could you not go alone and leave the kids with your DH.Or bring the older one but not The baby.1 year olds wont understand.

Leave them too it. They'll soon be wondering why they haven't seen you and start calling, or planning a visit.
I'd text back, That doesn't work for us.
When they text again and ask why, Tell them. Dragging two little ones across Europe on a plane with all that entails and a bad back for only a few days is no ones idea of a nice time.
Maybe see you next time you are in UK. Then go on with your day.
They sound very self centred.

oh OP i was being all sympathetic and then you came out with this tosh:

They love my husband but I think they want to have their special time with just their girls again and so they don't want to have the men there
But if they wanted to be closer to my and me then perhaps they should make more permanent choices to be in the UK

They arent that young they are 56

I'm a 56 year old expat. So fuck that. It's hardly decrepit, is it? You're the same age as my daughter (who has no children)

And why wouldn't they want special time with their daughters (although perhaps they should articulate that better)?

The thing about expat families is that it is different and can be difficult. One part of the family (in this case me and my DC & DH, with my parents in UK) moves away - they don't have to check that with all other members of the family, but it does bring baggage. One of those baggages is that you can't see everyone at the drop of a hat. And everyone who wants to see them has to a) suck it up and b) work round it.

Actually, if they've always (or usually) been expats, then you going to settle in the UK are the one who moved away, surely?

I wouldn't drive to Switzerland with a bad back though (unless you have a spiffy car with massaging seats?).

Most likely you have to accept that in terms of visiting family you may have to accept that this year is a bust and either do more face-time/zoom type meet ups, or just face up to it and get on with doing fun things with your DC at home.

(also still keen to know what "chopping" sheets is)

Unfortunately it’s not uncommon to find grandparents who seem to shown no interest in inconveniencing themselves to maintain family connections. I can see why your upset. IME they won’t change so try to stop expecting anything from them and you’ll be less disappointed and hurt. One of my and my DH parents are like this, the other ‘set’ Is invested and supportive despite us not asking for any ‘help’. In fact they don’t ‘help’ - just show and interest and come to visit us. They are starting to show signs of struggling so we have decided to try to move closer to them to be able to help as they get older. Needless to say, we wouldn’t make these changes for the other set. Looking after young children is very testing never mind throwing in flights, luggage, pandemics etc. Good luck 💐

Sorry OP but your reactions in later posts do seem a bit unreasonable. Your parents of course will love your DC but they are not theirs and so their priorities will not revolve around them so it is unreasonable to expect them to move to the U.K. to spend more time with them when they can enjoy their life abroad. Also what caramel said seems like common sense and while you want to examine your feelings you need to consider other people’s too.

If you are as well off as you say you are, why can't you arrange your own airbnb or hotel near your family in either Switzerland or Italy and then DH can go with you? Why is the onus on your parents to organise it or come to see you in the UK since you say family is so important to you?

But if they wanted to be closer to my and me then perhaps they should make more permanent choices to be in the UK

Why should they have to come back to live in the UK when their life and jobs are abroad? That is a very selfish thing to think!

As for They arent that young they are 56 Goodness gracious, 56 is YOUNG!!!!!

Your parents have brought up their children and are now enjoying peace, freedom and living their lives.

You’ve said your 4 year old is naughty several times. Ripping wallpaper and chopping (?) bed sheets. That can be overwhelming for anyone to deal with, even family.

Let your parents come to you.

Not inviting your oh is odd. Do they not like him.

Saying it's i.oiss8bke to fly with a 4 to and baby is odd too though. I travelled with mine at exactly that age, to Portugal, alone a few times and it was absolutely fine. Tiring but fine. You need to plan it well, ensure you keep your 4yo occupied and distracted.