To be hurt by this

[sensitiveorright]

I am fully prepared to be told I'm being unreasonable but this feels so shit and I don't know if it's me or it's not very nice

So I have two children and live in the uk.

My parents are expats and have moved between a few countries. At the moment they live in Switzerland. I have lived there before as a teenager, I love it.

I am now 27, almost 28.

My sister lives in the UK too.

My parents have not made any noises about settling back into England, to be closer to the family.

I haven't seen my parents since Boxing Day. They came for Christmas to the UK and it was so nice to not have to travel with a baby and a toddler. They don't have space for us in their home in Switzerland so it's easier if we stay in an air bnb etc.
Last week my sister was finally able to go to Switzerland and see them. She had a really good time. I couldn't go with the kids because there's not enough space for us there.
They haven't made plans to come to England yet.
I said I was hoping to visit them in the 2nd week of July and they then sprung it on me that they are going to their holiday home in Italy. For 2.5 weeks. Well it's emerged it's actually 4 weeks.
There's also not enough space for me in their apartment there either with the kids and my husband. So they then decided to invite me to Italy with my kids but notmy husband as there would then be enough space?
I can't fly alone with a child and my baby. Obviously. My 4 year old is really naughty and it's a struggle with my husband and I to control him.
Then I was told to come with my sister so I said fine I will do that and work around her dates,
Then I was told my sister would fly out with me but not back with me? Then I was told my sister and her boyfriend are going I would stay a week then fly back alone with the boys? So I would basically be not welcome to stay with her and her boyfriend after my parents left
They all seem to think flyling alone with a baby who's not walking a 4 year old who is extremely naughty is possible? How would I take the 4 year old to the toilet how would I get the suitcases?
I feel upset that the sister and boyfriend are basically going together so I feel like the third wheel with my family
I feel offended they have decided to spend a month in Italy before coming to see me
I feel offended we were invited as an after thought
I feel offended it was asked why it's a big deal to travel with them? I honestly think they live in cuckoo world because I have chronic pain issues with damage in my back and holding a child for a legnth of time whilst holding nappy bags and a 4 year olds hand who's trying to run off is shit
I don't want to go off and leave my husband behind and be in the sun with them?
If there was no space for my husband how come my sister and her boyfriend can now miraculously fit in?
They said it was like always their plan but it's nonsense
They have etched out the longest possible stay with zero intention of coming here to see me
I don't have the money to fly around everywehre and see them
I said I can go to Switzerland to see them
I said I can go to Switzerland and when they come back from Italy see them (to be told I'll be working so can only see you in the evening?)
I said I can go before they go to Italy but was told they will be working
So for them unless I go to Italy for those specific 6 days it doesn't work

AIBU to behurt And cross and think fuck then

I say screw it. And screw them.

Honestly as an older person (that is if you think 56 is old, well then I'm ancient!) who made their back problem a lot worse through travel/lifting when my children were young, I'd stay home and I'd
Look for places opening up to treat my back problem
Engage a cleaner if I could afford it
Start investigations for my four year old's behavioural problems.
Look for other sources of community for my family.
We don't always get the family's we want, I love my younger sister very much, but because of big lifestyle differences ( she is very wealthy, we currently live on benefits) we just don't meet up that often, sometimes I feel sad about it but it is what it is, I'm lucky to have other extended family who fill that gap.

There are some very rude replies on here, that I really do wonder why people have bothered to make, I can't imagine walking around this afternoon thinking, wow, I made a hilarious cutting remark to a complete stranger which have made them feel shit. Honestly, what a way to live your life.

Op- everyone is different, some people would feel confident traveling with two kids, some would find those ages or just the hassle of traveling too much, I would have done, I'm not as enterprising as some on here and usually took either my mum or my husband on trips abroad with my two children.

I think part of this though is coming to accept the limitations everyone has when people live abroad- your parents perhaps don't want to spend every bit of their annual leave going to England (when they deliberately left) and I do actually think that's ok, it's just everyone needs to adjust to a more realistic expectation- them that you won't really want to fly on your own with two handfuls plus no husband on your main holiday, and you that they actually do want to have a relaxing nice holiday in a lovely location and that won't always be near you.

Do what is best for you and your family this summer, they are doing that already so you don't need to feel bad about it.

I can see both sides. Your parents shouldn't have to move closer to you to help with the kids, presumably you chose/planned to have them. It is difficult with young kids and I have a small age gap between mine so can understand better than most. They are not elderly at 56! They could have another 40 years health dependent and can choose to spend it whever they like. If they work full time it is totally up to them where they spend their holidays and coming to the UK to spend them with you, might well be relaxing for you but not them. They have raised their kids, why should they be on hand to help or spend time with yours? I am not saying I agree with this viewpoint but it is a valid one.

The truth is that they don't seem that arsed about seeing you or spending time with your kids and this is upsetting for you ( again I get it) but you need to focus on your own family instead. Maybe do a weekend break in the UK somewhere for a change of scenery? They may well enjoy spending time with your kids as they grow older but they run the risk of the kids not wanting to know them by then. You have proposed several ways in which you could spend time together but they don't appear to be interested. When I go to stay with my parents, there is not a bed for all of us when my siblings are at home so one of us will sleep on the floor on a blow up bed. They are accommodating because they want is there rather than us staying in a hotel. F they said there was no room for my dh I would not go.Your parents are being the exact opposite. As hard as it is let it go and stop making all the effort, it makes you look desperate which is sad. Instead let them come to realise they need to make an effort of they want a relationship with you all.

I can understand why you would not want to get a flight on your own with a toddler and a baby, I wouldn't either.

Could your sister take the kids with her?

That way you and Dh can have a break. Grandparents see the kids and you can zoom etc all the time.

Obviously only feasible if everyone is comfortable with it.

I think they've probably forgotten how hard things can be with little ones and thought that the idea of a holiday in Italy with them would mean they'd see lots of you. It is a pity they weren't able to be a bit more flexible.

Could you hire an apartment of villa close by to visit them so your dh can go?

Sorry but why bother?

Also, my son probably has a behavioural problem.

That's the third conflicting description of him.
He's very naughty and uncontrollable by 2 parents
He's as good as gold, charming
He's got a behavioural problem.

I'm torn because your parents have the life I want when I am 60.

I used to be an expat for a very long time so I know what it is like to flit around, on planet expat with a glass of Verve Clique always in one hand. That is pretty much what being an expat in most places is like. I get where they are coming from and if I lived in Switzerland and had a holiday home in Italy, I wouldn't be flying over to the UK that often TBH.

Also, on the other hand I don't believe it is not do-able with your DC. I used to fly 14 hours on a plane with DS3 and DS baby years ago and once did this and then hopped on another waiting flight to Barcelona. I think you need to get naughty boy 4 in line and then perhaps your parents may be a bit more welcoming.

From your POV though, I can see that it hurts not to be included or see your parents that often. It is the reverse with what most parents have to put up with their adults DC who fly the nest. All I can say is that whilst your parents are flitting from expat brunch to holiday home and back, you don't need to worry about them. They are your parents and are having a good time. Believe me, I'd give anything for a parent that was having a great life.

I feel you're making some of the problems yourself here with all the things you say are impossible, but actually, with a little thought and a positive attitude, possibly could be done, but you lost me when you spoke of wanting to spend time with your parents before they become 'old and crumbly'

Beside anything else, would you actually want to fly anywhere at the moment?

Sounds to me like your parents want a holiday in Italy and if you can make it work so be it. But if you can't you can't.

YANBU to feel hurt, you can’t help how you feel, but you’re incredibly naïve if you think 56 ‘isn’t that young’ and you sound a bit self centred.

I’m pretty fed up with this ridiculous idea that parents are required to always put their children and grandchildren first and try to keep everything ‘fair’ all the time. You should have grown out of those childish notions by the time you reach adulthood.

As far as I’m concerned, once adult children leave home, you’ve done your bit. It’s up to them to cope with life and manage their own children.

I’m an ex pat/immigrant and visit my adult DC and DGC about once every 2 years or so and keep in touch via FaceTime, emails, letters etc. We live somewhere nice and they’re welcome to visit anytime but thankfully, they’re grown up and well adjusted individuals who are perfectly capable of managing their own affairs without input from us oldies.

you're coming across as hard work and whinging

Ah well, better that than coming across as vile apology for a human being.

Do they normally see you more? Do they get on well with your children? They need to come and see you.

I think YABU I’d just fly, it’s a flight to Italy. I’ve flown a lot longer (24 hours) with two babies alone it’s hard but it’s doable.

Hi OP. I would probably let this trip go this time. With the combination of the difficulties, cost, travelling alone, your bad back, the amount of baggage you need to take, a boisterous toddler and the fact that this is a non-urgent trip and we are in the middle of a pandemic, I would just simply say it’s not practical this time to travel alone and that you will come visit another time.

LoadOfOldTosh and Andwoooshtheyweregone, what disabilities do you have?

Your family is awful. Awful.

@narrowboatgirl

LoadOfOldTosh and Andwoooshtheyweregone, what disabilities do you have?

@narrowboatgirl what has that got to do with finding OP's phrase 'old and crumbly' offensive? And who appointed you to probe posters' medical histories?

@Nearlyalmost50

I don't quite get the comments on this thread about people not being ready to be grandparents, or not liking small children (the child is four!).

If you don't see your grandchildren when they are little, they aren't going to suddenly want to bond with you and build up a relationship when they are older.

Children are amazingly perceptive and know who makes the effort with them and who doesn't. It's fine if they want to live their own lives and then turn up once every two years or so, but if they do, their older grandchildren will simply not be interested in these virtual strangers. This has happened in my family.

If you don't mind as you don't like or want to have a relationship with your grandchildren, this won't matter, but I've found the people who do this then all of a sudden feel sorry for themselves that everyone isn't super keen on orienting around them and their visits. To be a grandparent, you actually have to walk the walk, not talk the talk.

This is a good point. However, not everyone is that bothered about being a grandparent. Most people probably are, but some, not so much. I say this after having a conversation with someone at an event last year that quite surprised me - the lady said to me that she didn't really see her grandchildren much but it was fine because 'I chose to have children, not grandchildren, that was my daughter's choice not mine'. I was a bit gobsmacked but she may not be to only person who feels like this.

I should say, this is not me, if I ever have any grandchildren I will be the Beverly Goldberg of grandparents so god help my kids.

I would feel hurt and I wouldn’t travel in your situation either, trying to make your four year old wear a mask for a few hours without removing it! Hell on Earth, that sounds Awful! Don’t put yourself out for people who obviously don’t care.

I can see where you're coming from but given your back problem, I'd focus on that. My best friend has a back problem that was massively exacerbated by childbirth 2 X and she is an expat so dragging tantrumming toddlers through airports certainly hasn't helped. Were she reading this thread, she'd say don't go!

Separately, it is evident your parents aren't fussed about visitors as they are wealthy but appear to have deliberately chosen accommodation without much guest space.

I had a similarly problematic relationship with my younger sister and was advised on here to back right off and stop trying to force more contact, when she evidently only wanted a little. I did and it has actually improved our relationship a lot.

There are plenty of grandparents out there who talk a lot about their grandchildren but don't really want to engage with the reality of the nappies and early bedtimes.

I don't think anyone in this situation is awful. Both the OP's parents are still working fulltime at their advanced ages and probably want a holiday as most of us do to relax and re-charge.

OP wants to see her family but it isn't straight forward. Travelling with small children is hard especially if one is very naughty.

I do think as well that grandparents who don't see their grandchildren very often find it very hard to adjust to the reality/noise/mess of small children when they see them, especially if all living in the same space.

Personally, I have no desire to fly anywhere this summer and have cancelled two holidays.

Would it be possible for you to go out by yourself for just 3 days or something to spend time with your family and get a break?

LoadOfOldTosh numerous posters have claimed that the OP is being unreasonable to struggle with traveling solo with two children, on the grounds that they personally cope just fine travelling alone with children. Ignoring the fact that having a disability/medical impairment/chronic pain is a massive barrier and that the experience of travelling (or doing anything) with an impairment is not relevant to the experience of an able-bodied person doing the same thing.

I am disabled and am constantly lectured and policed by able-bodied people who think if they can do something, everyone should be able to. That’s the definition of ableism.

Asking someone who is crowing sanctimoniously that they can do X just fine so a disabled person claiming they can’t do X is being unreasonable, whether they actually are disabled (and thus qualified to comment on the experience of travelling with an impairment) is perfectly reasonable.

DH and I went to Turkey for a holiday a couple of years back. We had separate seats on the aisle and a young 23 year old girl arrived with a 2 year old boy and a 9 month old baby To sit on the inside of me. Both fractious and over tired. My heart sank at the thought of 4 hours on a plane next to them! The little boy was a typical over excited tired toddler but the baby was adorable. The Mum was so stressed trying to deal with them both, apologising to me every 10 minutes, she looked close to tears. In the end I couldn’t bare to see her struggling. I told her what a wonderful Mum she was, doing the best she can and no need to apologise. I asked her if I could help and she just melted with relief. I took the baby for her while she took the toddler to the toilet and read stories to the toddler while she fed the baby. We chatted like old friends within no time. She was a lovely, intelligent young woman Who was totally stressed dealing with 2 such small children. She was fit and full of energy but she still struggled. From that experience alone I totally get where you’re coming from OP. I wouldn’t fly with young kids After watching her do it. I didn’t take my kids until they were much older. Tell your parents it’s too stressful and you wouldn’t enjoy it. Sorry OP but your parents sound like they want to start enjoying their child free life now. It sounds like they have enough money to enjoy a carefree existence now. It’s hurtful for you but I Can also see it from both sides.