In September will the kids who have done homelearning have to sit bored at school while works repeated for the ones that haven't. Or will they start there new' year ' work as normal. Either way it's

[947EliseChalotte]

It's not fair either way. The bright kids who have done their homelearning will be held back while it's repeated for the ones which were unable too .....or if it's a new year start with work as normal the ones who didn't do homelearning will have missed work and won't understand. So either is unfair to either groups. So what are the plans for education for September? Repeating work missed from march or new work from sept? Which group will be disavantsged the ones who have done work or haven't ?

a bad teacher is better than an unqualified one.
I hope not too. I think every child deserves a qualified teacher who inspires learning, I reality we aspire to this and most teachers love their jobs. As with any profession you will get the ones on a spectrum of loving their job, enjoying their job, thinking it is an ok job but doing their best to maintain standard, ones that are experiencing ill health, depression, family circumstances that impact the work temporary and the ones who are there for the money with minimum work or who are in the wrong job for them. Teachers and parents inspire and guide children As a child we can not control the parents you are born to but we can maintain high standards of teachers, So for a short time to cover a recruitment crisis I would say a well qualified HLTA is an adequate cover in the short term.

Imagine an unqualified, enthusiastic driving instructor
Let’s take an example that can’t actually kill shall we?
Imagine an unqualified, enthusiastic chef/baker/photographer/council worker...

My DS still talks about the teacher he had in year 2, he remembers how much he hated school, how little he learnt. Fortunately he had an amazing teacher in year 3 who motivated and energised the class.

The assistant head later acknowledged to my DH (he’s a governor) that they felt a qualified teacher was better than none. My DS still remembers this teacher though and talks about how bad it would be if she returned. He pretty much lost that year of school, subsequent teachers have been good but it’s sad that’s how he remembers year 2.

Posted too soon

Rather than a bad teacher but it depends on what you mean by bad and in the short term I mean a week at the most until SLT have recruited a long term temporary qualified teacher. Not a different one every day until securing a good replacement. Remember some Heads use this use of unqualified teachers as a way of saving money just like they get rid of older teachers as failing because they are expensive to pay. You will often recognise a good school by the staff turnover.

If my kids are going back in when this virus is still here, then they'd better be getting taught properly and not sat twiddling their thumbs while others catch up (or rushed through for that matter)...the so called official learning didn't include any stretch so I hope the relevant stretch will be there on return to school, otherwise frankly what's the point?

Let’s take an example that can’t actually kill shall we?

Unqualified but enthusiastic dentist?

It’s weird that so many parents seem desperate to get their kid back in a class with a qualified teacher when they could just try to be a bit more enthusiastic about homeschooling.

I agree but this is normal in a class We differentiate every day for the children we have in our class. We backtrack to consolidate previous learning and adjust our teaching to the needs of the class. Yes some children will have not completed anything in lock down. Others loads. and move on to provide challenge. For example I taught my class place value and addition at the beginning of the year and practiced at various points up to lock down. It is a key skill. First lesson back place value for tens and ones extension new learning into hundreds, Good teachers do it all the time. Don;t worry we are planning catch up sessions and extension sessions my school and I know most schools are doing this. We will bounce back in primary I am not so sure in secondary and post 16 as I do not work in that sector. I am sure my colleagues there are doing the same as us

Unqualified but enthusiastic dentist?
Do teachers surgeons now?
Are you actually implying a dentist and teacher are the same?

We’re very enthusiastic about home schooling - but I’m not a qualified teacher, which you rightly point out, is a requirement.

My DC want me to be just mum when I’m not working, we’re muddling along and hoping we’re doing ok. Wouldn’t know as we’ve had zero interaction from the school (despite polite requests).

Are you actually implying a dentist and teacher are the same?

Qualified professionals doing a job that requires skill and practice? Yes.

@Alongcameacat

Unqualified but enthusiastic dentist? Do teachers surgeons now? Are you actually implying a dentist and teacher are the same?

It's an analogy

Yes

😀😀😀

all the MN teachers of course were fucking amazing 😂

You are actually laughing in our faces?

Many parents complained, nothing was ever done. We spoke to parents she taught last year. Apparently the same issues which included absenteeism, lack of class preparation, poor teaching. Many complaints but nothing was done

You think that disciplinary procedures should be invoked by parents? You have no idea for the reasons behind absence, whether a lesson has been appropriately prepared or taught well. You’re not even there. Bloody hell, parents believing they get to hire and fire.

Classes are full of Children at different stages anyway, even when there isn’t a pandemic affecting their education. I understand people’s concerns, but It’s not like schools had classes full of children all at the exact same level of development and understanding before lockdown.

I understand it’s frustrating for some parents but all this “they better not be doing xyz” is really unhelpful and unrealistic. Children ARE all going to return to school in September in completely different places. Some will have been doing 5 hrs of education a day, some will have done none. Some children will have loved the extra family time some will have been in homes where there is abuse and violence. Some will have missed their school friends and some will have felt free from anxiety school normally brings them.

I don’t think a child possibly having to repeat a little bit of learning is actually that big an issue. I actually think the initial period when all children return to school should be about getting children settled back into a comfortable and stable school routine before worrying about the specifics of what bits of learning they need.

It's an analogy
A remarkably poor one 😀

I understand why teachers don’t want unqualified people doing their job. I really do. But as parents a bad teacher is worse than not having any teacher. The children don’t learn, lose enthusiasm and in some cases, as per a PP, they don’t enjoy going to school. My child is bright, a fast learner and loved going to school. After just four months with a very very poor teacher, my child cried at night because they didn’t want to go to school. They said sentences such as ‘Why do I have to do that, the teacher doesn’t care’.

They had an ‘unqualified’ teacher for a couple of weeks. My child complained that teacher was strict and gave them a lot of work to do.

Suddenly my child was working again,
, taking care over homework, telling me facts he had learned,, asking questions, he was enthusiastic again, he even made little pictures at home to bring in to give to this new teacher.

Then the first teacher returned and within a week, my child was back to not putting any effort in, and related stories about their day when the teacher gave out to them for asking questions.

It wasn’t just my child. About ten parents all said the same thing.

Our claims must have been justified because that teacher is finally gone.

Going to school I have had poor teachers myself. Teachers who spent the time looking at the clock, teachers who spent the class flirting with a couple of girls, teachers who got distracted really easily and spoke about a completely unrelated topic for for the duration of the class.
But luckily I was in secondary school and was aware of what should have been covered in the class and I could do extra work at home myself.
A young primary child cannot do this. They literally feed from the teacher.

I can’t believe I’m actually explaining why a bad teacher is worse than not having any teacher. The parents reading this will understand what I am saying. The teachers are closed to this which I find incredibly worrying.

Our claims must have been justified because that teacher is finally gone

Any teacher can leave at any time for any number of reasons.

Oh just keep shifting what you are claiming and expect people not to notice. You claimed that it was more important for a teacher to be enthusiastic than it was for them to be qualified. You sneered at the idea that teachers are skilled professionals.

And stop talking as if parents and teachers are different people.

And here was me, thinking we’d all really appreciate how hard teachers work at a difficult job once this was over!

My DC seem to have been really lucky with their teachers and schools.

During lockdown, they’ve had a daily PowerPoint with 6, differentiated subjects and lots of links to additional stuff.

They also have proper lessons on Teams three times a week, where they see their teachers and any classmates who are at school, plus a year group assembly.

Teachers available on email for any probs and they also check up on us if we miss lessons or don’t send pix of work in.
I know this as DH and I are both wfh and can’t always facilitate the lessons for the younger ones.

Weekly updates from school on how they’re managing and what plans they are making for autumn.
Normal state primary.
I don’t know how teachers do it. Having tried to teach mine these last months, I’m in fucking awe of you!

@Alongcameacat

Imagine an unqualified, enthusiastic driving instructor Let’s take an example that can’t actually kill shall we? Imagine an unqualified, enthusiastic chef/baker/photographer/council worker...

I think we have the heart of the matter here. Many parents undervalue the training, qualifications and skills needed for teaching. They think the equivalent is a chef or photographer. To be a chef or photographer you do not need a degree and a postgraduate qualification. Personally I have a first in my specialist science from a red brick university, and a master's in education. To be a good teacher takes a lot of study and practice and reflection. And work. Most NQTs work at least double their hours, which equates to less than minimum wage

However I have experienced bad periods as a teacher when I was probably not on form due to depression and bereavement. I am now part time to help my recovery. During lockdown I have been checking for and replying to students messages every day regardless of my contracted days. While also dealing with my own 3 children as a lot of people have. Teachers are human too. And yes like any profession there are bad ones, and maybe a rare unqualified teacher can do a good job of the actual classroom bit for a short term stint, but your average unqualified start of training unqualified teacher is a bit shit.

Many parents undervalue the training, qualifications and skills needed for teaching.
They think the equivalent is a chef or photographer. To be a chef or photographer you do not need a degree and a postgraduate qualification.
You're right.Once I'd read that, I gave up.

Enthusiasm doesn't make children literate or numerate.
Enthusiasm doesn't make someone competent at supporting SEN needs.
Enthusiasm doesn't get children the grades they need to have a range of options open got them.

Enthusiasm is not the same as competence, just like being the cool popular teacher isn't the same as competence. Some people can't tell the difference.

I remember a couple of years ago talking down an NQT who was struggling a bit. We had a new PGCE student who was charismatic, wildly enthusiastic and who did very flashy lessons and the NQT (careful, thoughtful, lovely way with the kids) was feeling crap by comparison.

They felt better when I pointed out that despite the kids enjoying the lessons, they would come out of them having learned nothing, remembering nothing. Whizzing along with flashy demos and a buzz in the classroom doesn’t create learning in the same way that patient explanation, repetition of key facts and deliberate practice does. The PGCE student had a lot to learn about how to teach.

Exactly.

noble
I've experienced similar.

Unfortunately I also spent time in a department where we'd have department meeting time given over to ideas for 'engagement', which seemed to be the 2 or 3 people who loved the old ofted show lessonsframework telling us we should have children out their seats, active learning, group work, throwing things across the room and so on. It's style over substance.
Amusingly, my classes got some of the highest results in the department. It turns out positive relationships and decent teaching is more important than lots of sugar paper and setting the room up like the set of a novel.

My kids are young. I honestly don’t care less whether they are qualified or not

You think that EYFS is easy and can be done by someone without training? 30 under 5s in one room, all learning how to talk, communicate, socialise, play, behave, not wet themselves, do phonics and early number work amongst a myriad of other vital learning behaviours?

Their attitude is the most important thing. It rubs off on the children
Attitude is important but it’s no use if you’ve got not idea how to then a) manage a classroom and b) ensure that every child learns.