To think referring to guests at Christmas lunch as waifs and strays is extremely rude

[notawaif]

I know I am BU to think about this in July, so don’t judge me on that.

I’ve seen it on a couple of threads and heard it in RL too, on FB and so on. AIBU for thinking it’s rude and condescending towards a guest?

@parallax80

I think this is probably an example of where a term feels very different depending on whether you are the one dishing it out or the one on the receiving end.

Similar to the very large number of threads around “white privilege”

There is probably also a spectrum of ‘waifdom’, and someone who is a student in a foreign country who is spending one Christmas alone and who will get calls / messages / post from family over the season probably feels differently to someone who has no family and has as a result missed out on very large number of social / family experiences and is used to feeling isolated or accepted on sufferance.

Excellent post

I'd object far more to being called a woman of a certain age who for one day is king of the castle

midgebabe yes that is also a very unpleasant way to be described!

I've always been nuts about Christmas, and start planning it in June - but the priority is that it is relaxed and enjoyed by all, rather than everything having to be 'just so'.

I have been the recipient of it. My first Christmas in the UK. 18 years old. 10 hours by flight from home. Didn’t know anyone really and most of my friends went home. A distant aunt invited me to her house. I was so lonely and frankly really grateful and even if she was playing Lady Bountiful, for that one day, I didn’t care in the least. Sitting alone in my dorm room would have been much worse.

@ChaBishkoot

I have been the recipient of it. My first Christmas in the UK. 18 years old. 10 hours by flight from home. Didn’t know anyone really and most of my friends went home. A distant aunt invited me to her house. I was so lonely and frankly really grateful and even if she was playing Lady Bountiful, for that one day, I didn’t care in the least. Sitting alone in my dorm room would have been much worse.

Yes, inviting someone over is very kind. For me it's the description of "waifs and strays" which has a negative connotation

But even if she had described me as that, I really wouldn’t have cared for that one day alone. If this was an ongoing relationship that was patronising that would be different.

If you're inviting someone and trying hard to make them feel welcome, whether you really wanted them there or not, I think it matters less what you call them.

My MIL probably used the phrase the first few times I went there for Christmas, along with various exes and friends of her children, but everyone felt so welcomed and was having so much fun she could have called us pigs in shit for all I'd care.

Someone who makes it apparent that the invite is only because you're alone and otherwise there wouldn't have been one, again doesn't matter what they call you as the lack of welcome will be obvious.

When I lived alone, for various reasons which no-one else was privy to, I often couldn't see my family for Christmas.I was just a woman who lived alone,neither a waif nor a stray.
Why would being invited to a friend's lovely family Christmas table have made me one?
The very phrase has connotations of loneliness, abandonment and desperation.
Would you like it if someone used it to describe you? ( Not you using it for yourself)

Would you like it if someone used it to describe you?

Honestly? I'd probably find it quite funny... BUT, I appreciate people might not like it and, for that reason, I wouldn't use it.

However, if someone truly thought you were lonely or desperate, do you think they would use the phrase? I would say probably not, unless they actively disliked you and wanted to humiliate you, which would be very odd.

It is all about context though I think, as jackparlabane said^^.

@jackparlabane

If you're inviting someone and trying hard to make them feel welcome, whether you really wanted them there or not, I think it matters less what you call them.

My MIL probably used the phrase the first few times I went there for Christmas, along with various exes and friends of her children, but everyone felt so welcomed and was having so much fun she could have called us pigs in shit for all I'd care.

Someone who makes it apparent that the invite is only because you're alone and otherwise there wouldn't have been one, again doesn't matter what they call you as the lack of welcome will be obvious.

this.

i have a friend who is the sort to invite anyone they think would like an invitation, and do it with a good heart and grace. she could call "us" waifs and strays and it would be a phrase imbued with love.

Someone inviting people from a sense of duty and obligation could refer to everyone as their guests and maanage to make it sound condescending.

i do think the pp who would refer to people as orphans, its only really acceptable with a group you know v well

I was single (off and on) and lived alone until I was in my mid 30s. Even my own dad once said 'I suggested they invite you because you're by yourself' (not Christmas related). A work colleague/friend, when she thought I was going to be alone for Christmas, said I could come to hers "I couldn't have anybody alone for Christmas". It just felt so bloody patronising. Why not say 'We'd love to have you if you'd like to come'?

I think when you marry/couple up early or are rarely without a partner, it's difficult to see how the world is very orientated towards couples. Thank god I found a husband and now I can be the Lady Bountiful.

The short version is, invite people if you like them and want them there. And don't make you feel as though you're doing them a favour. And don't refer to them as a waif or stray.

Yes to the ‘I can’t see anybody alone!’

Well tough luck, I don’t exist to soothe your social conscience!

*Yes to the ‘I can’t see anybody alone!’

Well tough luck, I don’t exist to soothe your social conscience*

I wish we could thank posts here! I actually quite like being alone, I live alone and spend most of my time outside work alone. I love it, it suits me and my lifestyle. Why would I want to change that at Christmas?

There’s no getting away from the fact that Christmas does a funny thing to women of a certain age. For that one day they are king of the castle. Some spend most of the year preparing for it. How successful it is depends on the buy in of the guests. But ultimately the guests are bit parts in a grander illusion so addressed as such.

Jeez I'm not sure where to start with this observation

I host every Christmas and have done for decades, I'm the only one with the space it's as simple as that. I don't start thinking about it until late November and cherish all the single or bereaved family/friends who come for a few days. We split the cost so I sure am not Lady Bountiful . The idea of lording it about is quite frankly risible

Obviously that phrasing will mostly likely be intended as a joke.

However, there are people out there who make a habit of always being guests at Christmas without good reason (i.e. I am not talking about an elderly relative who would otherwise be on their own).

We had a perennial waif and/or stray during my teenage years. My mum had a friend who left her husband for the OM. She had no kids and OM's kids would have nothing to do with her as they all blamed her for breaking up their parent's marriage (OM had the sun shining out of his backside). So OM would spend every Christmas day at one of his kids and my mum would invite her friend to our house. She always turned up half cut, no present, never contributed any food or help, used drink excessively and have some form of breakdown ever year and never once offered to host us despite her nice, large house. It was clear that this was a source of some tension between my mum and my dad and it did basically take the shine off Christmasses for quite a few years.

As a result I make sure we have a household only Christmas every few years.

YANBU. It's demeaning. Perhaps to be even handed, the host should be referred to as the benefactor or virtue-signalling do-gooder. Either invite people as valued equals or not at all.

OP, I agree.

Haven’t RTFT but agreed: this is so twee and patronising. Often said about single people or people without their own DC. Rude. And sort of needy in itself.

IME it's easy to tell the difference between the people who genuinely don't want you to be on your own having a shit time and the lady bountifuls. The LBs inevitably tell all and sundry about their good works. The genuine people offer privately and aren't offended if you turn their offer down.

Being offended is your own issue, it touches a nerve with YOU. It's nobody else's problem. You are the one judging others, not the other way round

Being offended is your own issue, it touches a nerve with YOU. It's nobody else's problem. You are the one judging others, not the other way round

That’s a very simplistic view though isn’t it? Can we say what we like about anyone/anything and then pass the buck to the recipient and let them take full responsibility for their feelings about what’s been said?

In some contexts, being referred to as a waif & stray is offensive. The burden doesn’t lie (in the OP’s situation on this case) for the first to basically get over themselves, but on the host to invite their guest as a wanted equal, and not through pity, or charity, because they are The Littlest Hobo .

*guest. Not first.

Can we say what we like about anyone/anything and then pass the buck to the recipient and let them take full responsibility for their feelings about what’s been said?

the context is the one from this thread.

You don't want to go, decline the invitation. If you have a massive chip on your shoulder because people invite you out of kindness, it's on you.

It’s not about having chips on shoulders. That’s so dismissive.

Yes indeed, and put your own feelings of hurt to one side because after all, people are only being nice?