To think referring to guests at Christmas lunch as waifs and strays is extremely rude

[notawaif]

I know I am BU to think about this in July, so don’t judge me on that.

I’ve seen it on a couple of threads and heard it in RL too, on FB and so on. AIBU for thinking it’s rude and condescending towards a guest?

I’m sure it’s said with affection. That’s not the point really.

I think it is the point. I think if something is said with affection then it is reasonable to receive in the same manner instead of ruminating over things until it becomes toxic and ugly.

People say things quickly and without much thought, and pretty much anything can be wrangled into offense, but hope that the listener will accept the intention and tone in good faith.

I think it’s very true that it is dependent on whether you are a giver or receiver and also your own circumstances.

FWIW Christmas was historically a very difficult period, I would have been very hurt to have been referred to as an orphan. My relationship with my dad became very strained after my mother’s death and his new partner didn’t like the fact he had children so that was that, and it was pretty difficult.

I overheard the waif and stray comment after being invited to Christmas dinner when I was about 20. I stupidly thought they liked me.

Ah, op, they almost certainly did . Going by this thread, some people have no notion of what a patronising, insulting thing it is to preface an invitation like that.

Looking back I don’t think they did although of course they didn’t DISlike me, they just wanted to do a nice thing for a young woman on her own.

The only people I'll spend Christmas with that I don't like, are family. And even then, it's borderline.

Anyone else, if they're there, it's very much because they're liked, and their presence enjoyed.

But, to be super fussy here, there’s still a difference between liking someone and valuing them and seeing them on an equal footing and I think that’s really what I am about here.

I am an intelligent woman, since graduating university held down a good job, owned a home since a young age, paid my own way. To have a hand extended through pity, compassion, sorrow at my plight, sits uncomfortably.

I’ve seen this countless times and it’s almost never recognised on behalf of the person doing it, who thinks they are being nice and enjoys that feeling, so understandably feels miffed when it is challenged. And often they are very nice, sometimes volunteering in prisons, homes for people with learning difficulties - and often say they like these people. But they are not their equals.

I hadn't really thought about it before, but actually you're right, OP.

But it's one of those things that depends on context. If the speaker is included among the 'waifs and strays' then it's entirely different. They're choosing that descriptor for themselves.

Using it jokily can work without being patronising, but it's a fine line.

But overhearing it about yourself...well I can imagine feeling the way you did - however affectionate they might have intended it.

You have your own interpretation of the phrase OP and you are applying that version to anyone who says it, regardless of their intentions at the time they said it. How can they win?!

Errrrr by not referring to their guests as waifs and strays, or orphans, perhaps?

Maybe by realising the potential for offence and not applying such a label to invited guests?!

you overhear some numpty saying "I'm having the usual waifs and strays".

Yep. How anyone can think that it's unreasonable to feel a bit hurt by that, I don't know.

But someone’s intention doesn’t necessarily change how upsetting something can be.

Drunk Uncle John punching your bum on Christmas afternoon after too many sherries isn’t inherently ok because he “meant it with affection”.

Of course loads of things feed into how you deal with someone saying something that makes you uncomfortable - how well you know the person, how you think they meant it, how they generally behave towards you.. and also how willing you are to risk losing what they are offering in case they become defensive if you mention it.

But the actual noticing or feeling upset about something isn’t really something you can police for other people.

AIBU to feel upset / not like this phrase? vs AIBU to never ever speak to my friend of 40 years who has stuck by me through thick and thin because they one time said something upsetting? different questions

Haha I meant to write “pinching your bum”, but also punching with affection probably not ok.

You sound like a fun Christmas guest, OP. I’m sure the party won’t be the same without you.

I am an intelligent woman, since graduating university held down a good job, owned a home since a young age, paid my own way. To have a hand extended through pity, compassion, sorrow at my plight, sits uncomfortably.

So it's their motives you are questioning really.

If you were invited without the term waifs and strays being said out loud would you feel the same? If a family invited a single person wouldn't they also think 'I've only been invited because I'm on my own'?

Many years ago I got asked to be a godparent twice in a matter of months. After many many years of infertility my immediate thoughts were 'they only asked me because I can't have my own child'. Since having my children guess what? I've still been asked to be godparent and guardian of many children. I guess the just liked me after all.

You sound exactly the sort of host op is trying to avoid.

@Dolly

I guess they*

@notawaif

Yes I know that sleeping I was trying to make a joke and you found it as funny as I find being called a waif and stray and orphan.

Ah it didn't translate as a joke, more a misunderstanding so apologies

I literally always thought it just meant when a load of people without wider family or who aren’t going to close family at Christmas all get together and have a great time.

When I’ve been a “waif and stray” at Christmas the emphasis has been on a bunch of people who are usually quite different and possibly don’t know each other all making a higgledypiggledy “family” for the day

Me mam used it to mean I looked starving and in need of a bath
I usually was
It always seems very caring to me

Yes and I do see that’s different flashes especially when you joking refer to it yourself.

It’s more when a family invite you and perhaps someone else and they are hosting the ‘waifs and strays’ that it feels a bit uncomfortable.

Ah dolly Christmas is hard, every family does things their own way. With the best will in the world visiting another family for Christmas, especially when you don’t know them well, can feel like you’re an alien visiting planet Zonk for the day.

It wouldn't bother me, but it clearly bothers the OP and maybe for good reason.

I would say YANBU to not like it when you are referred to this way and I think it would be fine to say something if anyone refers to you this way. But generally i think it isn't an offensive thing to say imo, no. And I also think that many people would take it as a joke. Perfectly understandable if you are not one of those people though.

There’s no getting away from the fact that Christmas does a funny thing to women of a certain age. For that one day they are king of the castle. Some spend most of the year preparing for it. How successful it is depends on the buy in of the guests. But ultimately the guests are bit parts in a grander illusion so addressed as such.

I don’t like it (bet you can’t tell!). It was so stressful when I was growing up. I agree it’s not nice to be called that but the bigger picture is so prevalent & endemic amongst so many I feel you either go with it or opt out completely.

Oh I don't know. I answered flippantly earlier on but when I was a teenager there would always be a couple of extra people for Xmas dinner, a friend of mine or a colleague of my sister's maybe, who was away from home. I don't ever recall these people being referred to as 'waifs and strays' but I suppose they might've been. However we all knew that underneath all that the extra non family people distracted from the fact our family was extremely dysfunctional and falling apart. They allowed us to have a nice Christmas dinner. These things are never completely altruistic are they.