Men on Mumsnet

[R2519]

Hi
I'm posting on AIBU, mainly for traffic, but will use the voting function to see what people think.

I am a man and have used MN for a few years now. I was a SAHD for our first child after doing shared parental leave with my wife. She wanted to go back to work and is the main earner so decided i would stay at home for another year. I am now back at work and our DD is in nursery. Anyway, i digress. I found MN to be hugely helpful when i was a SAHD. A huge wealth of information from other parents, mainly mums, on what to expect and how to deal with different situations. I genuinely found it invaluable.

This is where my question comes in......I am assuming that MN, as the name probably suggests, was created for Mums.....women, but i think its pretty common knowledge a lot of men use it too. Some like me, who are SAHD's or find it invaluable for parenting information but i am also sure there are some men who use it for questionable means (like the sex chat area for example).

So, my question is.......do women think men have a place on MN or would they rather men not use it?
Yes / IABU = Men have a place
No / IANBU = Would prefer men not use MN
(sorry, not sure the best way round for those)

Its a very general question i know but on the face of it i wondered if some women felt it was another example of men invading safe spaces, IYSWIM......I appreciate it may sound extreme but i was curious as to how people felt about it.

Finally, i know anyone can use any platform to give their opinion (providing its not illegal), I'm just curious to know opinions....from women and men too.

Thanks

@PenelopePitstop49

I'd agree with the PP who said that MN is a very particular blend of females. I'd say there is a larger proportion than average of users with MH issues especially health anxiety; in abusive relationships, and with DC with ASD. Or maybe they just post more. And a lot who just want an argument with someone, anyone.

So from that perspective alone I'm a bit puzzled why men would want to join in. But it doesn't bother me.

Probably because all those things you mentioned also affect men, you do realise that, right?

i know MN is for parents but i suppose should there should be some areas of the site where it is women only perhaps.

That's completely impossible on the internet

I used to be in a women only group on live journal, the ladies loos. You had to be vouched for to join after it went women only. I'm sure a few men did slip through the net but it as far as possible it was a female space. That it was women only drove men mad.

I really miss TLL actually.

It's all well and good if the originator/owner/admin of a forum designates it as strictly for one sex, profession, circumstance or similar.

However, as MN has been expressly declared as for everybody (well, all adults - it's certainly not appropriate for children with much of the content and the swearing), if it happens to attract a large amount of users with one particular factor in common and a number of them then decide that it should therefore only be for them - isn't that exactly the same as we see time and time again, in all areas of life, where men dominate things that are for everybody and then resent the fact that women want to be considered part of 'everybody' as well?

Considering that MN nowadays covers a huge range of topics, I'm baffled as to why anybody would be so desperate to only discuss CFs, selfish parking, which laptop to buy, neighbour disputes, TV programmes, pets, eBay experiences etc. etc. with people of one particular sex.

It just seems so arbitrary to happily accept the boorish, arrogant, patronising, rude comments from certain people of your own sex but to instantly reject all of the potentially wise, considered, respectful, helpful comments from people of the other sex.

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

It's all well and good if the originator/owner/admin of a forum designates it as strictly for one sex, profession, circumstance or similar.

However, as MN has been expressly declared as for everybody (well, all adults - it's certainly not appropriate for children with much of the content and the swearing), if it happens to attract a large amount of users with one particular factor in common and a number of them then decide that it should therefore only be for them - isn't that exactly the same as we see time and time again, in all areas of life, where men dominate things that are for everybody and then resent the fact that women want to be considered part of 'everybody' as well?

Considering that MN nowadays covers a huge range of topics, I'm baffled as to why anybody would be so desperate to only discuss CFs, selfish parking, which laptop to buy, neighbour disputes, TV programmes, pets, eBay experiences etc. etc. with people of one particular sex.

It just seems so arbitrary to happily accept the boorish, arrogant, patronising, rude comments from certain people of your own sex but to instantly reject all of the potentially wise, considered, respectful, helpful comments from people of the other sex.

You're right. (I won't say more to avoid being ponderous ).

isn't that exactly the same as we see time and time again, in all areas of life, where men dominate things that are for everybody and then resent the fact that women want to be considered part of 'everybody' as well

Yes, of course it is. Some members of MN preferring the site as a female space is exactly the same as what the way society defaults to men as normal and women as other. How clever and incisive of you to recognise the parallel, what a brave little fighter against the injustice men are suffering you are! Here is your

I really miss TLL actually.

I’d forgotten TLL! Ah good times. And all the raging about it from a subset of LJ men...

I agree with PP. MN has transcended its original purpose.

I'm not even a parent (joined when TTC, didn't conceive, stayed for the great advice, laughs and viper's nest no bullshit vibe).

"The fact that MN is a high profile female-dominated space is a brilliant thing and that in itself shouldn't deter men from being welcomed in general. It's good that they are.

Hopefully it should and does deter anyone who thinks that being male means they can saunter on and throw their weight around, which does happen of course - and the outcome is usually glorious to see"

Also this. Basically I should have just said I agree with everything @FizzyGreenWater said

Some members of MN preferring the site as a female space....

But it isn't, regardless of what some people might prefer. Your condescending sarcasm does not changes that simple, fundamental fact.

Yes, of course it is. Some members of MN preferring the site as a female space is exactly the same as what the way society defaults to men as normal and women as other. How clever and incisive of you to recognise the parallel, what a brave little fighter against the injustice men are suffering you are! Here is your star

Not sure why the aggression - glad you agree that two kinds of wrong don't make a right, though. Nothing whatsoever wrong with single-sex forums, it's just that MN expressly isn't one, so it's barking up the wrong tree and somewhat territorial to arbitrarily claim it as such.

As MN have repeatedly said that it's there for anybody (as long as they abide by the rules), male users could just as logically complain about the masses of women dominating what they would prefer to be a male-only site - they would be in the wrong too.

I have 2 dishwashers because my husband checks out stuff on mumsnet. (Thankyou everyone it's great.) He doesn't post though.

I don’t have a problem with men posting for advice (bar the ‘as a man’ stuff), although I do wonder why Dadsnet is so under used.

My main issue is the increasing number of posters who immediately jump on a thread to complain that women give different advice depending on the sex of the OP without a second thought to why that might be. Or the ‘if OP was a woman...’ garbage. The people who think equality means ‘everyone treated exactly the same’.

although I do wonder why Dadsnet is so under used.

I think the issue is that Dadsnet is just one of many sub-topics under the Mumsnet umbrella. AIBU, Chat, Relationships and others see a large amount of posts, but there are some that aren't used that often - and traffic breeds traffic.

I think Dadsnet is probably a case of too little, too late. The site was originally set up as Mumsnet (which the owners stated wasn't an ideal name, but snappier than alternatives), which would have deterred a lot of men, women without children and maybe other women who didn't want a restricted all-female forum, for whatever reason.

Dadsnet was set up as a separate topic for those who wanted it, but once assured that all respectful users were welcome to the whole site - male/female, parents/non-parents - a lot of dads probably didn't see the point in restricting themselves to just that one topic.

I wonder if Dadsnet ends up being the equivalent of what you get with the aisle layout in Boots, where there are lots of individual sections for shampoo, dental, skincare, baby stuff, travel, make-up, haircare, etc. etc. and then one little one at the back labelled 'Men' I don't know if this setup says more about Boots or about men?!

I suppose the difference is that, unlike a lot of women (by no means all), most men don't see Boots as interesting in any way and a lot just want to go in, grab whatever they need, pay and get out ASAP.; whereas women and men alike are interested in discussions on a wide range of subjects. I'm sure there are plenty of alpha male-sorts who 'wouldn't have time for all that nonsense', but (thankfully), they're not normally the thinking type and wouldn't be seen dead on a site with 'Mum' in its name and thus self-exclude, which is a big bonus for us all

This thread prompts a question: are there any other forums out there that offer threads with anything like the same mixture of entertainment, information, intelligent debate, and support? I keep coming back to MN because it has a good grown-up spread, but maybe I'm missing something elsewhere...

I would prefer it to be all female. But that would be impossible, so as it is will suffice.

I would also prefer it to be only women, but can live with the occasional male infiltration. If MN became closer to 50-50 female-male I’d probably not bother with it.

I’m just not very interested in men, although I do like some of them. But I work in a male-dominated environment and I feel all manned-out after a while. For me it’s about communication style, and of course it’s possible for one sex to communicate like the other, but there’s sometimes a particular kind of tone-deafness that reads as male to me, and which I find tedious and exhausting.

@mrsmuddlepies

There are lots of posters who begin their thread by asking for the advice of specific male posters, PigletJohn being the obvious one. They don't seem to mind mansplaining when it is getting them free building and plumbing advice. (Sorry PigletJohn, you are very much appreciated by MN.)

But he's the ONLY one - that's the whole point. What other 'male posters'? There are none. PigletJohn isn't an example of a male poster who is revered for his technical advice. He's a MN mascot and a living meme. He isn't the example that proves the rule: he's a one-off special.

PigletJohn doesn't mansplain, though.

No problem here, a parent is a parent.

But he's the ONLY one - that's the whole point. What other 'male posters'? There are none.

How can you possibly know what sex different posters are? Even if somebody states "I am male/female", there's still no absolute guarantee that they're telling the truth.

Going on the way some posters on here treat men, not to mention the frequent threads like this (not the neutral curious ones as to how they first found their way here, but the rude 'we don't want you - why don't you just go away' kind), there could be any number of male posters who are hesitant to state it. If they do mention it as an aside, there will invariably be some replies seizing on it and demanding to know why it's relevant or saying "Ooh, behold, everybody - a MAN has turned up to bestow his wisdom on us!"

Off the top of my head, SimonJT and GinDaddyRedux also have a lot of interest to say about all kinds of topics - whether you agree or not with everything they say, they're always respectful and contribute intelligently to the debate. As I say, there are probably a lot more who are either hesitant to state their sex or simply don't see why it could possibly matter for the vast majority of discussions on here.

I'm not accusing anybody here of anything, but I'm reminded of the 'sort' who will shout up about 'bloody immigrants' and how they're all the same, all up to no good, all wanting to bleed the country dry and why don't they just go back where they came from. Then, when you question them in more detail, they'll concede that Mrs Patel who runs the corner shop 16 hours a day is very friendly. Dr Singh is a real asset to the community. Mr Wong is a thoroughly decent sort and his takeaways are amazing. Maurizio is a great plumber, very reasonable charges and will always offer advice. Mercy is always so cheerful at the day centre. Ibrahim does a wonderful job at the all-night garage. Magda always makes sure your milk is on your doorstep first thing every morning without fail.... THOSE people that I know are fine, but they're the only ones - it must be all the rest of their sort who cause all the problems....

MN would have a different vibe if it was 50:50 and it wouldn't feel unique anymore. I value the fact that that it's mainly women, it's so rare.

MN would have a different vibe if it was 50:50 and it wouldn't feel unique anymore. I value the fact that that it's mainly women, it's so rare.

I completely agree. Because of that dynamic, you get a much greater range of discussions across the whole gamut of human experience rather than just sport or cars, and it's (mainly) much less aggressive as a result of the majority female user base.

However, to adapt a well-used MN phrase, that's MN as a class and how it has developed organically. I don't see why the presence of a minority of men who share those same interests and attributes would threaten anybody. Any of the lairy, mansplainy, God's-gift type who turn up are usually given short shrift, then become outraged at not being the centre of attention and assumed to be right, and then get themselves banned anyway. Either that or they flounce and never dare to return!

I have no problem with men or non parents on here. I have a massive problem with a small circle of posters who go out of their way to let you know they’re male and then go on to share their opinion when their sex has nothing at all to do with the topic. Some men enjoy shoehorning it in. Why? There are some perfectly lovely posters on here who I know are men but don’t need to go around with a big flashing sign. The “as a man” posters make me very uncomfortable, as if they think they’re better. I don’t expect them to leave, of course, it’s a free world and I am free to think they’re sexist.

there could be any number of male posters who are hesitant to state it. If they do mention it as an aside, there will invariably be some replies seizing on it and demanding to know why it's relevant or saying "Ooh, behold, everybody - a MAN has turned up to bestow his wisdom on us!”

Yes.

It always seems to be assumed that if a man outs himself it's because he expects this information to carry more weight, but I doubt that’s why most who are attracted to mumsnet bring it up. If anything, I think it’s almost a form of politeness, as in Look, I know this is mostly womens space, I happen to be a guy, I hope you don’t mind me speaking up too. To assume that inside every man is a mansplainer is just wrong.

The main problem with “as a man” is whoever it is presuming to speak for all men. Men don’t have one opinion on anything. Or the “as a man” has no relevance to whatever’s being discussed.