To think that people who 'want to switch off' from BLM are the ones who have chips on their shoulders?

[Moomin8]

I use a cloth nappy group on FB. A few days ago someone accidentally (I think, I didn't see it) made an offensive remark.

The next day one of the admins, very sensibly set up a thread for people to post educational resources relating to the BLM movement which encourage us all to think about how we can be a part of the solution rather than the problem. The issue of course, is that a lot of people don't even know that they are contributing to systemic racism.

That was fine until someone posted a comment saying this wasn't nappy related and they just wanted a space for nappies etc. After that it turned into a bit of a bun fight and got quite nasty.

There were only a few people who seemed to have this view but it left me wondering, why would someone complain about something positive that we could all learn from. Cloth nappy communities include people from BAME backgrounds (obviously) and why would you not want to take action against something that could hurt other people?

@insideoutsider

Yes. That was my point all along really. That any group should be focusing on inclusivity.

Although I have been accused of 'whitesplaining' I don't think I have because I have repeatedly said that I myself don't understand all the associated issues. Which is why educational threads are needed. Which is why I was happy for the thread to be on the FB group. I think whatever I say will be twisted out of context.

It was totally innocuous stuff like

• what to teach your child to do if they see racism happening

• people's experiences of how their lives differ and they are held to different standards.

• what POC find upsetting / annoying in their day to day lives. Explained by POC.

When people refer to BLM, usually it's in the context of black peoples lives mattering.

MNHQ have deleted the posts where I was called names and accused of being a troll. I've actually been on MN for 16 years and they can hopefully see I'm not a troll.

However, I'm actually not going to engage with this issue any more for fear of saying the wrong thing. I'm autistic so probably I don't maybe get my message across in a way that people understand. Maybe I sound pompous but I have not intended to sound that way. I don't know everything and that's the point. And is why things shouldn't be pushed under the carpet.

@mrsBtheparker you have no idea. There are people who cry because they didn't manage to bag a certain print (true story)

[quote Moomin8]@ArriettyJones you are making assumptions about me and you actually know nothing about me.

I do not support Marxist violence etc. So do you object to people trying to make a more equitable society? The phrase 'black lives matter' means (to most people I know) that POC should not be seen as expendable by the police. I've not seen the associated stuff to do with communism.[/quote]
Well then it's time to educate yourself about the BLM movement then!

@missingmum someone below has just said that she doesn't associate the phrase with the political movement but with black lives . I think probably a lot of people don't.

@Moomin8 well that's a poster that has a different view from me to which they are fully entitled to, I'm stating mine.

BLM has recently received £1 million via its go fund me page, a BLM spokesperson stated that BLM would invest this money in strategic ways to defund and abolish the police, is that's not a political issue?

Yes. I do understand what you're saying. Maybe there are safer ways to try and address inequities than associate with a specific organisation (or be seen to) that have no political links.

@missingmum not sure that’s right. A quick Google tells me ‘Defunding’ the police is about ‘reduction in police department budgets, the delegation of certain police responsibilities to other organizations’. Rather more complex than just abolishing the police. I haven’t read enough about it to form a view.

The fact is the current police system is persecuting black people. Do you have any bright ideas for fixing it?

@5wandh any source for your statistics? And do you have equivalent statistics for white people?

@Moomin8 agree totally, I fully support the frustration, upset and completely unjust way POC have been treated and that this needs to be addressed and changes made.

however do I believe BLM is the only way to voice and address these issues? No, I don't, simply because I don't support ALL of BLM's---- long term agenda does not make me a racist.

I do think there needs to be more transparency from BLM rather than the "if you don't support it" your a racist which is from my personal experience is what seems to be happening.

Yeh like let’s all switch off from feminism and jkr!
Wouldn’t happen on MN

@Cadent google is not always the best source as I've found out myself, the clue in the word "abolish" is key though as this was used in the radio report on LBC today.

bright ideas? well maybe we could ask a spokesperson from BLM to address and conclude what exactly they mean by abolish as quite frankly it's absurd to push that agenda without any explanation of what it means exactly?

@Cadent

My statistics are based on the average population of black people over the last seven years in America and the average of 277 black people killed each year by the police over the same time period. If you question them, look into it yourself. You will find no different to me.

Separately, if you question the abolition aspect that Black Lives Matter stands for then look at the cofounders social media directly. They state this directly. Patrisse Cullors is the only one currently as a spokesperson for them but they were founded by three people specifically. I can provide evidence if needed if you don’t wish to use your own time to look into this.

If we want to talk about racism away from Black lives Matter directly then I am all for that as I am against racism 100% no matter who it is directed against.

@5wandh

So your figures haven’t been independently verified and we’re supposed to trust you? Nothing doing sorry.

And #BLM is bigger than 3 people. You are trying to discredit a force for good. A quick Google tells me ‘The overall Black Lives Matter movement is a decentralized network and has no formal hierarchy.‘

@5wandh What’s your source?

As many black activists have said for decades, when whites women are faced with a choice to support ethnic minorities or to uphold white supremacy in their own interests, they always choose the latter.

MN is a prime example. Frothing at the mouth daily about feminist issues but cannot stand the thought of supporting black women and women of color on intersectional issues.

I wonder why black women should care about JKR and trans rights when they are still worried about their skin color causing abuse to them and their families. To be honest I don’t think they should give a toss. The trans community supports black women more than white women do.

I'm not white so I am personally affected by racism and agree that it needs discussion, but honestly, if I was in a cloth nappy group and someone started going on about BLM, or any other political issues for that matter, I would find it irritating. I think other people in that group must have been annoyed too, but only 2 of then had the courage to actually say something.

Not every single space in the world needs to talk about BLM. Where does it end? Do we need to educate ourselves on the horrors of FGM in sub Saharan Africa when we join a group about local fishing spots? Do we need to sign a petition to fight against sweat shops before we're allowed to discuss if anyone in our local nursery fb group knows of any carseat that on offer right now?

It's fucking tedious and tiring. This is why people switch off from the conversation.

Where would you draw the line OP? Should your cloth nappy group be discussing climate change, homelessness, drug addiction, transgender rights, equal pay, FGM.... If not, why not?

This. I would take a safe bet that the majority of the members of this group are women, @OP ? Should a thread be set up about how women being the main care giver is partiachical and resources shared to discuss how we can dismantle the Patriarchy and get men to do more of the child rearing - especially as sexism is another systematic oppression which permeates ever single are of life?

Well no, because that's not the purpose of the group. It would be on thing for the admins to make a post saying they support BLM, will always strive to be anti racist, please alert us to any racism and we will deal with it - and then leave it at that. It's another thing to derail a whole discussion which is almost completely unrelated. I am Indian in heritage and I am sick of there being posts about racism everywhere I go, it's exhausting to be constantly reminded of and there is always an expectation and obligation to get involved in the dicussion, because if someone says something racist or inaccurate I will call them out because I won't let misinformation be spread, but sometimes I want to mentally check out for abit and give myself a break from seeing it and needing to respond. I'm so glad that it's finally being addressed and taken seriously but when I go to a Facebook group specifically about cloth nappies, or pottery making, or herb box growing that's what I want to see discussed. The niche thing that I'm interested in is my mental break. And honestly so much of it feels like virtue signalling now and just being seen to 'do something' rather than really getting the issue.

What I'm saying is I want to switch off sometimes because I'm exhausted of being reminded of my oppression everywhere I go. Sitting in my bed mumsnetting late on a Wednesday night am I experiencing opression? Not directly but if it weren't for racial bias's I may have got into a better uni, been listened to sooner about my anxiety so have come out with a better degree classification. I may have gotten a better job is my very ethnic sounding name wasn't on all my CV's. I may be earning more. So I'd probably be sat in a nicer bed, in a nicer room.

However whilst sitting in my bed late on a Wednesday night I'm not thinking about this. I'm just thinking about winding down after a long day. And being reminded of it everywhere I go, rightly, makes me angry about structural racism again. And being angry is exhausting. So sometimes I don't want to be reminded of it because I want to unwind and enjoy my evening without being angry for a couple of hours and therefore being exhausted by my anger. Sometimes I just want to explore my niche hobby or interest, which is almost completely unrelated to race, in peace without once again being reminded that I've spent my whole life being treated as less just because of the colour of my skin. There's nothing wrong with wanting a mental break.

@NotMyNicknames don’t worry. Society will move on from this anti-racist moment and go back to oppressing minorities quietly. Then you’ll be free to do your hobby without thinking about difficult subjects. I give it a few more weeks before the zeitgeist passes.

@missyoumuch

Congratulations for spectacularly missing the point.

As a minority do my opinions on talking about my own oppression not matter? Or do they only matter when they fit into your narrative of how someone should feel about and respond to systematic racism?

I'm allowed to be exhausted and want a break whilst still caring massively and fighting vehemently for anti-racism the rest of the time.

Can someone explain to me with regards to BLM, what is the actual problem they want to address?

[quote NotMyNicknames]@missyoumuch

Congratulations for spectacularly missing the point.

As a minority do my opinions on talking about my own oppression not matter? Or do they only matter when they fit into your narrative of how someone should feel about and respond to systematic racism?

I'm allowed to be exhausted and want a break whilst still caring massively and fighting vehemently for anti-racism the rest of the time. [/quote]
Talking about your own oppression is completely different to systemic racism. Youd be pushed to give any example of systemic racism in the UK akthough id agree individual instances of racism obviously do occur.

@NotMyNicknames I haven’t missed any point. The one opportunity in my lifetime when the world is listening to issues of black oppression. I don’t want to switch off now. The powers that be will ensure it is switched off soon. Let’s all soak in a bit of discomfort for a moment. You’ll survive.

And you may be a minority but you’re not black. I don’t have authority to speak about anti-Asian racism and say because I’m tired of hearing about it that’s some sort of definitive statement.

Read a book and stay off the internet for a few weeks if you’re suffering so much.

Can someone explain to me with regards to BLM, what is the actual problem they want to address?

They want to bring an end to capitalism.