Who pays

[Courtney555]

If you were significantly better off than a really good friend, and it made no difference to you, whilst they were on a tight budget, would you always pay for coffees, (non extravagant) lunches etc.

I was going to put circumstances, then realised they were irrelevant as we are both nice, decent people, just one of us is really financially comfortable, and the other, for very genuine reasons, has very little money.

I love going out with her and our DC, we deliberately don't pick places with high entry fees (we both have children), but for example, if we go to the park, I'll buy everyone an ice-cream. If we meet for a Starbucks, I'll get the bill.

It's just kind of every time. And it's bugging me a little. She's not being entitled or a CF who could afford to pick up the whole bill herself. £20 I don't notice on a round of coffee and cake, is a tangible part of her weekly disposable income. I think there's an element that she knows it's negligible to me, so feels quite comfortable about it. And I don't begrudge it, I love her to bits, but when it's every time, I just think, once a month, she could say, "let's split it."

It's never anything over say £30, and I'd hate the thought of saying "shall we go halves" and her to feel obliged, then that was the money for her and DC dinner.

She's not a freeloader, truly, she's not. If it sounds like she is, it's my error in how I've worded this. I'm arguing internally, that, "£20/30 doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"...."but then 5 times a month, that's up to £150, which is a lot for her to be ok with accepting as treats"...."but the spend over a month doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"

So, AIBU. If we have a great time, as do our DC, and it's of immaterial consequence for me to pick up the tab for sundries, and very material for her, do I just keep doing it?

Or, just because it's immaterial, doesn't mean it's ok to keep doing it? Or more to the point, because it's a very material amount to her, should she be ok with accepting it on every occasion.

Myself and a family member have very different views here, would like to see general consensus.

(Quick clause, before this runs off on a stealth boast tangent, I hope people have the clarity to see this is not about being "significantly richer than yow" )

I would feel embarrassed if someone paid for me every time and so awkward about not being able to pay my way, that I would stop going.

I’d suggest finding really free things to do. If you have to pay to park then be early so parked and message her to say you will meet her some distance from the car park so she has no choice other than to pay. If you feed the ducks and then the children are hungry because you’ve stayed out later than planned, tell her it’s late and you need to get home to feed them and go home. Try it for a few months to break her association with you always paying for everything.

I couldnt be continually on the receiving end of treats and not be able to return the favour in some way. Im curios why your friend doesnt do anything to help toward the costs of the days out.
Okay - she might not have cash for the car park but she could provide drinks in a flask or some snacks in a bag. It doesnt have to cost a lot for such things .
But you mention buying ice creams and starbucks. Maybe she thinks thats what you prefer? And would look down on drinks or snacks from home?
Maybe do something similar yourself so she knows youre okay with it. Or cartons of fruit juice for the children and cans or bottles of something appropriate for the adults. Still spending but nothing approaching starbucks all rounds prices.That might encourage her to get them next time .

For a good friend, I'd pay, and in the past I have. My view is if you want to do an activity that isn't affordable for them, they you pay. If you don't want to pay, then only do activities which are genuinely free. It is perfectly possible to say 'it's getting late, I have to get the dcs home for lunch', rather than go to a cafe because everyone is hungry.

If you are cash strapped you simply can't afford an unplanned 10 quid or so on lunch, just because the day ran away with you. I wouldn't want to leave a friend short for the rest of the week over a lunch bill.

I have money now and one of the best things is treating my friends and family to things

Maybe this annoys you because you know it's your own choice to offer her these things, to go to Starbucks even though she's skint, and not to bring sandwiches and a bottle of water just in case it happens again? So perhaps you're partly annoyed with yourself for having put yourself in this situation?

You don't want to stop meeting up as you get on well; maybe she feels the same? If you always buy lollies for your children when you're out, and that's too expensive for her, but she doesn't want to say no to her children while yours get lollies, then she might feel like her only choice is to act like she kind of hasn't noticed you've paid again?

I used to go out with a group of 4 of us. One never had any money and we took turns to pay for her.

One day she showed us her new phone - the latest iphone.... the reason she never had any money was she had the latest phone - always upgrading, bought an iphonewatch type thing, had a couple of ipads as well. Would always have her lashes put on and nails done - but never had any money for a lunch or coffee meet up.

We stopped offering and she stopped coming. Off to find a new bunch of idiots to pay her way for her.

Now I am not saying that your friend is like this but they are out there happy for others to pay whilst some of them squander their money. PS None of the rest of us had the latest phone because we were more 'careful' with money! She was a cock fucker.

I wouldn't want someone else to pay for me all the time. I'd be very uncomfortable about that. And I wouldn't want to pay all the time (unless I was with family, when I'd be fine) because I'd think she should suggest meeting in places where it's free, and then bring drinks and food with her.

It's one thing you saying, "I'll treat everyone to an ice-cream" and her expecting ice-creams all round from you.

Everyone knows that when you have kids you have to take food and drink out with you - it can cost a fortune otherwise. Why doesn't she suggest that?

It's hard if it's now a habit and the money isn't the thing - so you can't really say that you can't afford a coffee one month.

I completely get that £140 and £10 would feel a huge amount better. You know your friend better than we do - can she afford £10 or really can't? If she reasonably could but you always pay because you're better off, perhaps you need to start having a car park purse for that money but "forget" your purse and see if she offers to get a coffee/ice lolly.

This sounds very similar to me and my friend, except I don't have my own kids. I tell myself I like spending time with her and love seeing her dc so it's worth spending the money. I suppose you have to decide whether you would prefer to see her and spend the money, or save your money but perhaps see her less?

I wouldn't allow anyone to pay for me at all. You say that your friend is not a free loader, but you have been enabling this situation of paying for everything to continue. This is niggling you now, so the best thing to do, is discuss this with your friend. It should not be a problem, if she is a sensible and good friend.

I personally, would not waste any money .buying coffee and cakes and lunches at coffee shops etc.The money spent.soon mounts up. It's nicer for you both, to take your own food and drinks,for your outings together.

OP why don't you do things at home? Mind you, having said that I have a friend that for 7 whole years would come over to mine and not once invited me to hers.

Next time you go for a " free" outing suggest she brings coffee and drinks/ snacks for her DC as " we always end up getting coffee etc and its all adding up, lets bring from home from now on"

See what happens??

I would never go out and expect someone else to pay for me or my DC. You may have set a precedent but she is a CF not to even offer a few pence or say lets not do ice creams today.

I had a friend who saw me as being loaded, she didnt want to pay either, she offered to look after my DS for a week over the holiday. (her DS was his friend) I didnt need any help as I had organised a holiday club, however I thought ok and offered some money. However she expected the same amount i would be paying for a holiday club and for me to give him money too. She offered to baby sit and complained that I didnt give her enough money. It was cheaper using an agency. Asked for money and wouldnt pay it back as she clearly thought i didnt need it. Once money becomes involved the relationship will change. I stopped seeing this woman

@Courtney555 you’re paying for her parking?? This is turning into pisstaking!! It’s one thing paying for a coffee/lunch but when you both pull up in your own cars you pay for your own parking!

If you don't want to do it don't be a martyr. It will be a bit awkward to reset, because there is now a precedent and if you mention getting ice creams she might just say no I cant afford it and the kids also need to understand they can't get these things while out anymore. Maybe need to think about what she can afford and taking drinks/travel mugs of coffee out with you instead.

I think in a way, if I saw £20 as material enough that I couldn't spend it on sundries, I wouldn't be comfortable to allow someone else to spend it on me repeatedly.

She might be comfortable because it is you and your are close. She might be uncomfortable but feels embarrassed and ashamed to say anything, especially in from of the kids who all want a lolly and if it was her decision alone with no pressure she would say no.

Be very careful the reason you are resenting it now is because, maybe subconsciously, she doesn't appear grateful or appreciative enough, as that would be a toxic dynamic for both of you.

"If you were significantly better off than a really good friend, and it made no difference to you, whilst they were on a tight budget, would you always pay for coffees, (non extravagant) lunches etc."
No.
There is not a chance that I would let someone pay for me every time we went out, irrespective of the difference in disposable income. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end all the time and neither would I be on the giving end all the time.

I couldn't have such low self-respect and disrespect for a friend as to accept them paying all the time. I would feel that friend was paying me for my friendship. There's a massive imbalance in this friendship which isn't healthy and will become a huge source of resentment over time.

It's the lack of any contribution. I fully agree with what she says, I'd happily pay for us all to have a great time at the safari park, if she justbought the coffee and cake. If she can't afford the drinks from the park, that's ok, I'd be more then happy if she baked a cake and brought a flask from home for elevenses.

Is there a reason you can’t suggest this OP?

“Let’s go to the zoo, I’ll get the tickets. Food there is so expensive, let’s bring a picnic instead. Do you want to bring sarnies and a flask of tea? And I’ll bring some snacks.” Or whatever.

Hopefully she says yes & then you can just keep doing that and will feel happier about it.

It's nice to be generous, but does she ever offer to pay - even just once in a while? Or make it up by baking you a cake or something? If the answer is no then she's a freeloader. I would be uncomfortable accepting anything other than the occasional coffee from a friend. Maybe once or twice a year. She should acknowledge, sometimes pay or at least repay in kind e.g. help you out or babysit - or you should meet somewhere you don't pay.

Be more organised and start planning to bring sandwiches from home, and just text her before you leave saying I’ve packed sandwiches for my lot just to let you know!

I’d be happy to pay, but your friend is odd to let you do this every time.

Who suggests these things? Tbh, when you're skint the day doesn't just run away with you in that lovely easy way because you just go home.

Who suggests fancying a coffee? Who suggests lunch as the children will be hungry? Do you find yourself making all these suggestions and she just goes along with it? Maybe that's how she justifies it to herself (not saying it's right by the way).

It depends. Does she suggest the days out?
I'm on a tight budget so only ever suggest going for walks with friends or invite them to mine for a coffee. Occasionally we go out for a coffee but I pay for myself and only buy a drink, nothing else.

If friends want to do something I can't afford then I don't go. I wouldn't expect anyone to pay for me.

If your friend cannot afford to do these days out but you really like doing them and spending time with her then I think it's perfectly reasonable that you pay or suggest doing something that doesn't cost anything.
If she is suggesting activities that she can't afford with the expectation you'll pay then that's different.

I think you should take turns to pick the place, she could pick a local park and take a picnic whereas on your turn you could pick somewhere more expensive? To be fair I would rather a picnic to buying stuff

I have been in your position too.

It annoyed me for a number of reasons

1. I felt it was taken for granted
2. It is possible to give something back without spending money, she never did anything like this
3. I could never keep taking things from a friend like that, so wondered why she was so okay with it in the first place
4. It became expected
5. I resented it in the end, the goodness of the deed evaporated

I made a few key decisions, I stopped seeing said friends over lunch or dinner times, and just met up for an hour. Your children will still benefit, the friendship will still exist but just moderate when you get together. Mornings or afternoons only. Ignore the icecream van - have a coffee on the way or before you leave.

Picnics etc work well because everyone brings something.

For friendships to truly survive they need to be based on both sides 'giving' and not just one side. It can quickly become unhealthy.

You can keep this as a good friendship if you are prepared to put some boundaries around what you are prepared to do/pay for.

I think by paying for it all you’ve kind of set a precedent that it’s all or nothing?

I know i would feel incredibly awkward if a friend had bought me a meal if the next time out/next round I offered to pay halves?

Friend probably could afford to pay her own half on a couple of occasions but maybe isn’t offering because she can’t also afford to pay your half and the friendship norm is that one person pays the lot (I hope this makes sense)

I don’t know how you get out of this though and honestly, is it worth losing a friend over if your not missing the money? Would she do the same if the positions were reversed?