Who pays

[Courtney555]

If you were significantly better off than a really good friend, and it made no difference to you, whilst they were on a tight budget, would you always pay for coffees, (non extravagant) lunches etc.

I was going to put circumstances, then realised they were irrelevant as we are both nice, decent people, just one of us is really financially comfortable, and the other, for very genuine reasons, has very little money.

I love going out with her and our DC, we deliberately don't pick places with high entry fees (we both have children), but for example, if we go to the park, I'll buy everyone an ice-cream. If we meet for a Starbucks, I'll get the bill.

It's just kind of every time. And it's bugging me a little. She's not being entitled or a CF who could afford to pick up the whole bill herself. £20 I don't notice on a round of coffee and cake, is a tangible part of her weekly disposable income. I think there's an element that she knows it's negligible to me, so feels quite comfortable about it. And I don't begrudge it, I love her to bits, but when it's every time, I just think, once a month, she could say, "let's split it."

It's never anything over say £30, and I'd hate the thought of saying "shall we go halves" and her to feel obliged, then that was the money for her and DC dinner.

She's not a freeloader, truly, she's not. If it sounds like she is, it's my error in how I've worded this. I'm arguing internally, that, "£20/30 doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"...."but then 5 times a month, that's up to £150, which is a lot for her to be ok with accepting as treats"...."but the spend over a month doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"

So, AIBU. If we have a great time, as do our DC, and it's of immaterial consequence for me to pick up the tab for sundries, and very material for her, do I just keep doing it?

Or, just because it's immaterial, doesn't mean it's ok to keep doing it? Or more to the point, because it's a very material amount to her, should she be ok with accepting it on every occasion.

Myself and a family member have very different views here, would like to see general consensus.

(Quick clause, before this runs off on a stealth boast tangent, I hope people have the clarity to see this is not about being "significantly richer than yow" )

I've seen it as providing my children with the experience of having friends along.

This is kind of how I see it. My DC are not spoiled. They don't get every ice-cream they ask for etc. But, if we're all out, and having a lovely day, and for example, we've found ourselves at a national trust gardens, and they'd like a cookie, and some pellets to feed the fish, then of course they can. And I don't feel I should deny them something simple and enjoyable on the basis that I'd have to exclude friend's DC or have to pay for them too. I want them all to have a lovely time.

I think a lot of it comes from, we'll plan to meet at 10, for a walk at the river, to feed the ducks, and then they're all having such a great time, suddenly it's 12 and we fancy a coffee, then we wander through the park with a coffee, having wonderful conversation, and suddenly it's 2.30 and DC are peckish. We haven't brought sandwiches/picnics because we'd only planned on feeding the ducks at 10. The days kind of run away with us.

YANBU - your friend probably feels awkward but needs to be more thoughtful. I am usually on the other side of this situation and make a point of offering to pay my own way. If a better-off friend does pick up the bill somewhere expensive (this might happen if they want to go there and have offered to treat me), I will cover the tip, and/or I'll pay for us both when we next go somewhere cheaper. I also go out of my way to reciprocate friends' financial generosity in non-financial ways, e.g. looking after their DCs if they are stuck for childcare. I like to feel that things are balanced.

Is part of the problem the length of time this has gone on? So, you are feeling that she never offers to pay, and therefore takes you for granted, and she might be feeling that if she offers to pay now it might seem like something has changed? How does it come about? Do you always offer to go and get the ice creams etc?

Maybe just view it differently. Because, if it wasn't for meeting with you, would she actually be doing any of it? Would she be having a coffee if she wasn't meeting you etc? Would she be going to the place with the paid for carpark if she wasn't with you? And if you turned it around, would her friendship with you then be costing her money that she can't afford?

I've had some similar situations where disposable income has been different. At the time my friend didn't own a car, would always pack a lunch / snacks for her and her DC, take a bottle of water etc.

We normally met at the park or for a walk or in each other's houses. But, if we went out, I'd pay for the fuel and parking (which would have cost me the same if she was in the car or not) and match what I did to her - so take a packed lunch, bottled water etc. Maybe you could try something like that? It might be awkward to suddenly change what you are doing, but if you feel that you are being taken advantage of then you either need to change how you view the situation, or change the situation itself, so it doesn't become a bigger issue.

I earn quite a lot more than my very good friend. When we do something, I always just suggest she gets the cheaper option... we both know what's going on, but it works for us... for example, I'll pay for us to get in the safari park and then she will get the ice creams. If we have breakfast, she will bring the bagels and I'll provide the salmon and eggs. If we drive in her car away for the weekend, I'll give £20 petrol, but if we go in mine, she will get us a coffee at the services. Always contributing but never equally. When we were at uni, I couldn't afford a deposit for our student house (£250) and she paid for mine for me and told me she didn't need it back. If she's a true friend, just suggest that she gets this round, if she doesn't or makes an excuse or doesn't want to meet again then you'll know.

I think part of it is you’re describing these things like they’re inevitable (car park charges, ice lollies)

I picked up the same thing from your posts. You say We do pick "free" places. Parks. Walks in the woods. Playgrounds. But you know how it is, there's a car park that's a fiver. Then it's really hot so everyone has a lolly... To someone on a tight budget, nothing is 'free' unless it really does cost nothing. You could -

• Carry on as you are picking up the tab
• Find some genuinely free places to visit at least some of the time
• Talk to her about it

Personally I wouldn't be comfortable going out with someone who always picked up the tab - I think at the very least she is taking you for granted, but on the other hand I think your attitude of not 'counting' minor expenses has probably contributed to this problem.

She should definitely not be accepting so many freebies, it's exploiting your good nature. I'm sorry but you've dug yourself into a bit of a hole here OP. Time to be straight with her and explain that you don't feel it's right for you to pay for everything.

Do you offer to pay though? How did it become this as the default?

I suspect its because you (very kindly) offered to pay all the time. So now its become the norm.

I have a similar friendship and I’m the end I started small by arranging a park visit and asked if she could pop to local shop and grab a box of lollies on her way. Worked well that every time we did the park she would go this and didn’t feel like I was making her spend inflated prices when out and about

TBH I would resent my better off friends paying all the time. Would feel like I am their charity case.

I always pick up the next time, and ask for the bill early if I have to, to make sure.

To keep cost down, I do walks rather than drinks.

Apologies for errors, fat fingers

I think the issue here is that you’ve been paying for so long it’s now become tradition, so to speak, so she expects it because you’ve let it go on this long.

I think it’s rather late to nip it in the bud now; you should have done when it first started.

Well I would feel awkward if I was the person with no disposable income or not very much, I don’t think I would be going out with you as much, because of it not being fair to you, I would actually tell you though having conversation and explain that I couldn’t afford all the ice creams etc and then say why don’t we go to cheaper places or just for a walk

I couldn't always allow a friend to pick up the bill.
I do have a friend who is significantly more affluent than I am and there is only one time in our 40 yr friendship it's come up.
That was when I had used all my savings on a horrible divorce.
We'd arranged to meet for dinner, but when I realised I really couldn't manage it I asked if we could just have coffee instead.
I didn't need to say why, but she guessed and we had an honest conversation where she offered to pay. It was a lovely gesture. Normally we go 50:50 and now again I'll get coffees.

I have the same situation with a friend and tbh, it does grate, although with her it's more the fact she doesn't even acknowledge the fact I've bought the drinks/snacks etc, it's just the way she is, whereas I'm the opposite and would always fall over to thank someone if they bought mine. It's a rubbish situation but I've just started only getting my drink in the hope she takes the point. I don't think it's necessarily cost with her, she just doesn't think. For example, if I go round to hers on a Friday for a drink, I take my own. When she comes here, she doesn't bring anything. I don't have any advice really I'm afraid, but you're not alone in feeling frustrated with it.

I'm generally in a similar boat to you. I generally think it comes across as patronizing to pay for everything. But in a meal for example I might agree to split the main, I'll have a starter or cheese which they share, and I'll get the drinks. I'll get the 'sundries' like parking, tolls, often drive.

If either of you feel it's too much then it's too much. If you're happy to pay more because you enjoy here company and doing things together she can't afford.

If a third party disagrees, consider how important to you, their view on what you do with your money is.

Not sure which way the YABU vote is meant to go

The problem here is that she doesn’t seem to be doing anything in return. We have a friend who is significantly less well off than we are at the moment so it seems natural that we treat her or pick up the tab when we are out (back in the the good old days). She can’t reciprocate financially but she does other things. She might bake a cake for a special occasion or babysit. She is a very talented seamstress and recently gave me face masks she has made out of offcuts of fabric. There’s one each for all the family, made to WHO standards. She’s done that for all our friendship group. It cost her pennies to do it but it must have taken hours and hours of work.

That sort of unspoken give and take is the essence of friendship to me. What the OP Is describing seems a bit one sided.

I do this and I’d leave it in your shoes.

I'm the other side of a friendship like this - I'm the one with much lesser income.

My friend almost always says "I'm sure it's my turn" to take the bill, but I keep a note and I know when it's not.

I wouldn't regularly accept someone paying for me, though if it was a one-off and I was skint, I might accept and do a favour = possibly even a thank you card, depending on what it was - later.

TBH - I'd feel embarrassed if I was constantly leeching off someone.

[quote Courtney555]@TheFoz this is my issue, if I don't, it will restrict our relationship.

We do pick "free" places. Parks. Walks in the woods. Playgrounds. But you know how it is, there's a car park that's a fiver. Then it's really hot so everyone has a lolly...[/quote]
Sorry but she is a CF!

I would say " shall I get the parking and you get the icecreams?"
She cant expect you to pay all the time

That sort of unspoken give and take is the essence of friendship to me.

She’s a freeloader, simple as that

Normally, folk would have the manners to just refuse yet another lunch out

Realistically if you don't buy the sandwiches because the day has run away from you then friend and DC will go home to eat as can't eat out so day will be cut short. It would be disingenuous for her to wait for bill and offer to split knowing she can't and also a stress in case you agree to split.

Sounds like a close friend, who is good company for you and children so as it is affordable I would keep paying. Or accept the day will run away from you and organise you both to bring lunch. I would only grudge it if you felt friend came out for free coffee rather than because she enjoyed your company which is highly unlikely.

Oh op I have had a similar thing with a friend. And not just money where I would pay for things, it was always me doing stuff for her and helping her out. Eventually I realised that we had a mother/child relationship whereby I was the parent. The roles were truly stuck. And once I realised it, I felt irritated and resentful of everything. We are not really friends anymore. The friendship was too unequal.

She is a cf, either because she just accepts without a word or because she’s embarrassed. Either way, she’s taking the piss.

I think @rhowton has got the nail on the head for me. I don't expect an equal contribution by any means. I'm fully accepting of the unequal balance. Two people both contributing something, irrelevant of size, is what I see as decent and fair.

It's the lack of any contribution. I fully agree with what she says, I'd happily pay for us all to have a great time at the safari park, if she justbought the coffee and cake. If she can't afford the drinks from the park, that's ok, I'd be more then happy if she baked a cake and brought a flask from home for elevenses.