Who pays

[Courtney555]

If you were significantly better off than a really good friend, and it made no difference to you, whilst they were on a tight budget, would you always pay for coffees, (non extravagant) lunches etc.

I was going to put circumstances, then realised they were irrelevant as we are both nice, decent people, just one of us is really financially comfortable, and the other, for very genuine reasons, has very little money.

I love going out with her and our DC, we deliberately don't pick places with high entry fees (we both have children), but for example, if we go to the park, I'll buy everyone an ice-cream. If we meet for a Starbucks, I'll get the bill.

It's just kind of every time. And it's bugging me a little. She's not being entitled or a CF who could afford to pick up the whole bill herself. £20 I don't notice on a round of coffee and cake, is a tangible part of her weekly disposable income. I think there's an element that she knows it's negligible to me, so feels quite comfortable about it. And I don't begrudge it, I love her to bits, but when it's every time, I just think, once a month, she could say, "let's split it."

It's never anything over say £30, and I'd hate the thought of saying "shall we go halves" and her to feel obliged, then that was the money for her and DC dinner.

She's not a freeloader, truly, she's not. If it sounds like she is, it's my error in how I've worded this. I'm arguing internally, that, "£20/30 doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"...."but then 5 times a month, that's up to £150, which is a lot for her to be ok with accepting as treats"...."but the spend over a month doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"

So, AIBU. If we have a great time, as do our DC, and it's of immaterial consequence for me to pick up the tab for sundries, and very material for her, do I just keep doing it?

Or, just because it's immaterial, doesn't mean it's ok to keep doing it? Or more to the point, because it's a very material amount to her, should she be ok with accepting it on every occasion.

Myself and a family member have very different views here, would like to see general consensus.

(Quick clause, before this runs off on a stealth boast tangent, I hope people have the clarity to see this is not about being "significantly richer than yow" )

Do you feel taken for granted?
I think that may be the issue here xx

The key here is that she expects it and you resent that. I would go to a few places that don't cost anything for a bit. If she cries off, then you'll have your answer.

I have no problem paying for people who are a bit poorer than I am. But if they invited me somewhere and then expected me to pay for them, then I would have a problem. The only person whos' allowed to do that is my Mum (who also cooks meals for me).

I think you need to change what you do together. (Covid rules allowing) why not invite her for lunch/play date at yours with the hope she will return the invite. Keep the lunch simple - if you put on a lavish spread she will feel too self conscious to invite you for a sandwich/packet of crisps.

Arrange walks and picnics at parks/forests/public paddling pool etc. Especially with Corona you could suggest it's best to each do your own food if you like.

If you are not interested in doing anything free then she probably isn't the friend for you longer term.

I couldnt do that. I have a strict budget and luxuries are few and far between. I could never go out once a week with a friend and expect them to pay for me and my DC every time.

My suggestion would be to take drinks from home and only stick to free things, maybe once a month have a coffee from Starbucks etc, that fact that your friend is very comfortable with allowing you to pay every week and feels no shame is very telling.

Part of this is going to have to be you accepting that you can't do these things then if you want to do things together.

So, no going to the place where the car park costs a fiver (no way I'd pay a fiver to park). Bring a flask. The children don't have to have an icecream every time and if you want your children to have them then either you'll have to give that up or accept her children might have to go without.

You can't have it both ways, be friends with someone who has considerably less spending power and wanting them to financially contribute, but do the normal activities that you don't even think twice paying for but might leave a significant hole in her budget.

Could you bring a cool box with drinks for the kids, a flask of tea/coffee for yourselves and a pack of biscuits?
It is a lot of money for you to be spending all the time, but you don’t HAVE to do it, there are ways around like I’ve suggested. Tell her you are trying to cut back on frivolous spending as you are finding it all adds up. Instead you are going to save for x, y or z.

Why don't you suggest a picnic next time, each of you bring some food. Then she can bring what she can afford and not worry about the high cafe prices.

Our local garden centre has a yearly membership, then you get a few free coffees a year, so a group of us and she would be able to shout you the odd coffee without it costing much at all. Might you both be more comfortable with something like that?

I typically pick up the tab where it's small, it's an actual proper friend and not a CF, and where I know the friend is on a much lower wage than me.

I think in your case, I would expect the friend to pick up the tab occasionally somewhere very cheap (so a token gesture rather than real bill splitting) or bring some home made treats to share some time. If the friend has never even attempted to make a gesture like that, I can understand why you are starting to feel a bit of a niggle, but to be fair, this is a situation you have made yourself and your friend isn't a mindreader.

OP - there is having no money and then there’s having no pride. The former is not her fault, but the latter most definitely is.

Ask yourself would you do the same in her shoes? The answer is no. So of course this is bugging you!

It’s not her fault she has no money, as you say. But it’s not your fault either. I think it speaks volumes about her character that she allows you to repeatedly pick up the tab for her, as if it’s nothing. Does she even refer to it?

Sorry, but she is using you. The amount of money is not the point. It’s the principle of the matter.

Anyone else would bring a flask or sort themselves out. Fine if you buy her the odd lunch, etc. This is normal. But when it becomes a pattern, the dynamic has shifted from a friendship to a dependency.

I think part of it is you’re describing these things like they’re inevitable (car park charges, ice lollies) - I’m in a budget and they’re not trivial expenses to me, I’d budget for those things at the start of the month and either just not go places where I had to park, or park on the street for free and walk, and I hardly ever buy ice lollies or coffee when I’m out - we bring water or travel mugs and snacks with us. So these “little” expenses are just not ones I would incur in my daily life and if someone else was choosing to do paid-for versions of things I would happily do for free then yeah, it’s up to them to pay the extra.

We park down deserted country lanes, walk through fields and drink water! It costs nothing and to me its just as a nice a morning out as an expensive country house or fancy adventure playground with coffees and cakes all round.

I could have written your post OP and I too was thinking about this a few days ago, so watching with interest.

I have the money, friend doesn’t. If I want to do these things, I think I have to accept that I’ll pay. However I see my mother do the same (she’s very much a people pleaser) and it drives me up the wall as I feel she’s taken advantage of.

I totally get your point that you’d rather it was £140 and £10, than £150 though.

Agree very much with idea of suggesting you bring picnic items etc. Also agree with you saying you are cutting back on frivolous spending if she suggests a coffee shop.
It has nothing to do with wherever you can afford to keep treating her; I think, if you keep paying, time after time, there is an unhealthy dynamic to the friendship.

So when you go to the park and everyone wants a lolly, what does she do? Just stand back and let you go and buy them? And when you go for coffee, why do you always go up and buy all the coffees? Can you not queue together and you just order your own? She would have to order hers then.

Surely there are physical things you can do that put her in the situation where she HAS to buy her own. Once or twice. And it would signal to her that she can't make the assumption that you'll always do the treating.

I've had this and it has rankled. It's not the actual money - as I knew I was notably better off than friend - but the assumption that I would always pay. Someone mentioned on another thread that some people seem to think they're entitled to a share of your money if you've got more than them.

In my case my friend would turn up and just wait for me to pay. On one occasion I asked if she had change (because I needed to pay an exact sum) she said she'd come out without any money. On another we were sharing a taxi and I asked if she could contribute and she pulled a sulky face, rummaged in her bag and gave me something like 63p. This started to really pee me off. Again not the money but her attitude. She sometimes gave me the impression that she resented me for having more, though it had been her choice to give up work (I didn't) when she had children. I had to start being very careful about what I said. If I mentioned a holiday (not showing off, just when telling an anecdote) or she noticed I had a new bag or something she would roll her eyes or make "it's all right for some!" comments.

We don't see each other so much now. Mainly because our kids are older but bit old enough to be left (she lives in my old home town which is a couple of hours away) but the money thing did start to be a factor that spoilt the atmosphere.

I've given her a bad press here but we're are still friends and have been since we were 11. She is actually kind, loyal, funny and though a bit prickly she has written me a couple letters over the years saying she knows she might not show it but she appreciates that I am a true and loyal friend to her. The money thing was a fairly small factor but it did niggle.

I've been very low on money when DC's were young. Wages only just covered bills no extras. I just didn't go on these type of trips out, I would refuse as I couldn't afford entry to farms, zoos, softplay etc. I instigated trips to the local park, took a picnic lunch, if my friends wanted to get me coffees, ice creams etc at the cafe, I would politely refuse claiming I and dc's were happy with our bottle of water, sandwiches etc.
I would not be comfortable with someone else paying for me and dc's, unfortunately this does leave us unable to go to some days out, but, that's life 😁

...and yep, all the people saying 'take picnic things' are missing the point. It's not that OP can't afford things, it's her friend's assumptions and behaviour that are the problem. OP presumably wants that to change, not be hidden.

Why is it bugging me?

Because you feel somehow that the dynamic it sets 'puts you down' - you meekly pay and she doesn't feel she has to say something - this puts you in the position of being the servant and her the boss, to be really simplistic about it.

It's not like that at all of course! If she thanked you profusely every time and felt guilty, that would more honestly reflect the roles you really play... but of course that would actually make you feel shit and awkward.

In the beginning did she offer? If she did and you always refused, then it's understandable that she doesn't do it everytime now.

Break the pattern by saying you are cutting down. Don't spend. Don't buy the lollies and coffees. It's unreasonable to expect her to take a turn, if she really can't afford it, so you all need to go without or reduce your outings.

I personally couldn’t let someone else pay every time.
I have friends who will though. I just limit my time with them so even though I may pay, it isn’t so noticeable. I wouldn’t see them more then once a month though. I also wouldn’t say anything. I just try and balance the benefit of seeing them against the cost to me.

I earn less than some of my friends, plus I live on my own with 2 kids so there's only my wage coming in.
I still pay my own way, and have often paid for soft play for both sets of kids, a drink for us all if the other person paid for entry or we each paid entry for own.
If a friend pays for my share I always pay the next time. Because I am not a CF, and it's not fair for me to spend their money.
I think you're just going to have to stop offering for the next couple of times in order to break the routine. Yes it might be awkward, but you are not some kind benefactor responsible for your friend's costs.

It may be that you are the person turning every free trip into an opportunity to spend money. When your friend and her DCs go to these places, they might avoid the ice lollies and the coffees that you see as essential.
When I was young we didn't have much money so we could easily go to the park and avoid the ice cream van and the cafes.

I can see why it’s annoying. You feel like she is expecting to be paid for but she is not your child or responsibility.

Go for a walk somewhere with free parking, bring your coffee with and get the kids lollies when you are driving home not at the park.

You have to do this for a while to see if she suggests you buy something , she offers to buy or if it works with neither of you spending money. You could also give your children “pocket money” to buy their own lollies and say you are teaching them budgeting / value of money.

Once you have done this for a while you can then suggest a treat where you pay if you want but don’t feel obliged to do every time.

You ask a really good question and illustrate in a great way what happens when contribution isn’t equal. Regardless of reason. You have created the situation where through good intentions you have started to feel like there is an balance. She, by not declining your generosity (politely) has aggrevated the problem. She should refuse and you should pull back. Neither of are you to blame, but these are perfectly normal human emotions and you can take action by reducing the spend or the number of visits.

Be a bit more creative. Suggest a picnic in the park. Each of you to bring three things. That way it will cost her £3 instead of £15.

If she’s on a tight budget, £15 for coffee and cake is ludicrous.