Who pays

[Courtney555]

If you were significantly better off than a really good friend, and it made no difference to you, whilst they were on a tight budget, would you always pay for coffees, (non extravagant) lunches etc.

I was going to put circumstances, then realised they were irrelevant as we are both nice, decent people, just one of us is really financially comfortable, and the other, for very genuine reasons, has very little money.

I love going out with her and our DC, we deliberately don't pick places with high entry fees (we both have children), but for example, if we go to the park, I'll buy everyone an ice-cream. If we meet for a Starbucks, I'll get the bill.

It's just kind of every time. And it's bugging me a little. She's not being entitled or a CF who could afford to pick up the whole bill herself. £20 I don't notice on a round of coffee and cake, is a tangible part of her weekly disposable income. I think there's an element that she knows it's negligible to me, so feels quite comfortable about it. And I don't begrudge it, I love her to bits, but when it's every time, I just think, once a month, she could say, "let's split it."

It's never anything over say £30, and I'd hate the thought of saying "shall we go halves" and her to feel obliged, then that was the money for her and DC dinner.

She's not a freeloader, truly, she's not. If it sounds like she is, it's my error in how I've worded this. I'm arguing internally, that, "£20/30 doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"...."but then 5 times a month, that's up to £150, which is a lot for her to be ok with accepting as treats"...."but the spend over a month doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"

So, AIBU. If we have a great time, as do our DC, and it's of immaterial consequence for me to pick up the tab for sundries, and very material for her, do I just keep doing it?

Or, just because it's immaterial, doesn't mean it's ok to keep doing it? Or more to the point, because it's a very material amount to her, should she be ok with accepting it on every occasion.

Myself and a family member have very different views here, would like to see general consensus.

(Quick clause, before this runs off on a stealth boast tangent, I hope people have the clarity to see this is not about being "significantly richer than yow" )

I remember once going out for a friends birthday meal (think it was tgi fridays), I couldn't afford it but I love my friend and didn't want to let her down. I had a starter and tap water for my meal and said I 'wasn't very hungry' because I didn't want to not order anything in front of my friends friends who I didn't know and show her up. I'd told my friend I couldn't really afford it and she'd offered to pay for me but it was so humiliating because everyone was supposed to be splitting her meal as the birthday girl. Just awful. I feel sick and could cry now thinking about it.

It sounds like you go out together quite a lot, and your kids get on, so I'd be a bit wary of offending her. I've been that friend, I was on benefits and kind of oblivious that a friend on a good salary might get resentful about subsidizing me. When she finally said something, I felt really bad and it tainted our whole history really as I imagined she was resentful the whole time. And I was still broke and couldn't really afford to pick up lunch or snacks for two families so I started avoiding her.

if you've always come across as generous and relaxed, she probably genuinely thinks you like spoiling them all.

Maybe make changes gradually, like when you're walking back say "Why don't you grab the kids an ice lolly and I'll go and check the parking ticket?" Or keep an emergency £20 in the car but don't take cash out with you. Or suggest taking a picnic lunch out where you both chip in. I wouldn't actually say something, unless you think the friendship is strong enough that it wouldn't cause awkwardness.

Get more organised.

Either meet at home, so it doesn't cost anything to anyone, or do plan for everybody to bring their own sandwich.

Long term, it's a very unhealthy relationship where one pays all and the other nothing. Unless your friend is trying to make it up as she can, offering babysitting or favours. If it's not a one-way thing, I wouldn't even notice, but if you pay and the friend does offer nothing at all in return, that's CF territory.

If she is broke, it would mean to suddenly ask her to pay for something she hasn't budgeted for. But you can still stop the one-way thing!

It's nice to be generous, but does she ever offer to pay - even just once in a while? Or make it up by baking you a cake or something? If the answer is no then she's a freeloader.

I think this is it really. I've been both sides and I know that when I'm the skint one, I make a point of not taking it for granted and also paying in other ways or for cheaper things. So it's not unusual for me and friends to agree that one gets the coffees and the other the lunch - so everyone is contributing. Or with a friend who loves entertaining, loves expensive wine etc and has said often she doesn't expect or want contributions I make a point of ensuring we still invite her to ours for an admittedly simpler event and insist she brings nothing. And she has commented in the past that she really appreciates it because although she loves entertaining and loves choosing food and drinks etc it's sometimes nice to be treated too and a lot of other people don't (we suspect because they feel they can't match what they'd get at hers).

Or make an effort in other ways - going out of your way to do something nice for the person's birthday, making a homemade treat, insisting on babysitting or whatever.

Having said all that, I also think that when there's a large financial disparity, the person with less feels like nothing they can contribute would be worth it and/or appreciated. And I'm not sure how to sensitively address that short of being able to gush, "Oh friend, I love your baking, PLEASE will you make me a cake for my birthday" or whatever.

Maybe make changes gradually, like when you're walking back say "Why don't you grab the kids an ice lolly and I'll go and check the parking ticket?"

This is terrible advice. It isn't up to the OP to try to coerce her poor friend into paying for things that she might not be able to afford. The OP has to be the one to retract her money spending as she is now resenting it.

I am the paying friend and I agree it grates if the friend NEVER seems to offer. I just stepped back a bit from situations where spending money was an issue and she did start to occasionally offer to buy coffee. Now it’s more equitable.

If I suggest something expensive I expect to pay but it’s nice to not be the one paying all the time.

Definitely start to nudge towards some contributions by way of picnics or snacks. It’s possible she feels awkward about this anyway.

I used to always pay for my friend when she was pregnant and on mat leave because I was working FT.

When the tables turned she has never offered for em.

This is actually quite a tough one, especially considering the precedent and the fact in material terms it makes no difference to you. If i was the friend I'd feel a pillock offering to pay, say, £2 from a £20 bill. It begins to feel like hairsplitting about pennies. But I understand your position too OP.

I think it's all the fact it's unsaid that's causing it - could you facilitate a conversation to bring it up nicely and kindly - not talking about how you've spent £x in the past but specifically going forward - "I'll pay for parking, would you be able to bring any treats you want to have or buy them there?" sort of thing...

Does she give you a nice birthday present etc or treat you at any other time to say thanks?

If I was the lower earner I would absolutely cringe to have things paid for me. I would rather me and my kids not have any cake/ice cream etc.
If I was the higher earner, I would resent paying all the time.
The best thing would be for each person to pay for their own family, or not to go places where food etc has to be bought.

Next time plan in advance and bring sandwiches and cake - maybe a flask of coffee. I understand where you are coming from that it doesnt financially put you in dire straits but its nearly £2k a year - that's a holiday to me. In fact you could give your friend the money you are saving if you wanted to.
We take picnic bits out these days as it was getting out of hand and the kids were able to snack without being near the coffee kiosk.

This is about either her fitting to your lifestyle or you fitting to hers. She fundamentally can't afford your normal - so go to hers - if she is a good friend and you say look I can't keep doing this can we choose less expensive places every so often if you don't mind, you might find she says oh yes that's fine - I can pay this time here its just Starbucks prices are exorbitant (I never buy there). I just think you need an open convo - maybe choosing places with no entry fee or near a supermarket where a pack of 8 lollies is 2.50 instead of that each. At the moment you are expecting her to fit to your lifestyle and as such I think you should pay if she can't

You sound genuinely lovely, OP

Why is it bugging me?

I wonder if it's because, much as we none of us may like it, we're all subtly conditioned to see money spent on us/others as part of the regard others/we have for people. It's why inheritance rows within families are so horrible. Money comes to symbolise love, regard, status.

So you have made a sort of a deal with yourself that your friend's friendship & company is "worth" £150 per month - not that you're putting it that way explicitly at all, or buying her company deliberately or consciously, I hasten to add. But maybe what is bugging you is that she doesn't seem to value you.

Again, I don't think that any of this is deliberate or conscious - it's really unfortunate. We don't mean to be transactional in our relationships usually, but money is symbolic. And perhaps underneath this is the feeling that she doesn't value you in the way that you value her.

You do sound resentful.

Fgs don't "test" her as one charming person suggested.

I think any money talk you do is going to go badly. She clearly just doesn't have the money. Is it possible that she used to suggest free or cheap things but you always upgraded them so she doesn't bother now?
I have two relations who grew up with wildly different family wealth. One would always want to go somewhere that the other couldn't afford, and it's left bad feeling between them for decades.

I think I'd go down the route of nlt mentioning it, just only really suggesting free or cheap things to do from now on. Invite her over for a drink in your garden, a walk in the park or a picnic as others have said.

I have a high income and would never waste my money in Starbucks! Can you not invite your friend and her children to your home for coffee instead of meeting somewhere like Starbucks?

I think that after you have been so generous in paying for her and her children all the time, she is just taking this for granted now. I agree that it is hard for you to alter the practice and think that she is unlikely to raise it. Do you have any mutual friends? If so, do you know if she pays her way when she is out with them?

I think she is taking the piss to be honest. I never take it for granted that someone will pay for me. I always offer to pay. She could offer to reciprocate in other ways, like make you all a nice picnic.

I have a good friend who earns significantly more than me (20 years older, good career, no mortgage etc) but I'd never not pay my way or assume she will for the bill. We may go out for a meal and she will insist on paying, but next time we go out for coffee and cake, I'll insist on paying (albeit a smaller bill), or we'll go for coffee and cake and she'll pay, but I'll insist on paying for the second round.

I'll never go out without the money to at least pay for my share. I'd I don't have it, I decline the invite or invite her round mine for a catch up instead.

The OP might be resentful because it does sound one-way.

Being broke is one thing, but what about everything else? Some real friends might have no money, but be the first to offer to help you move/redecorate/give you a lift to airports or whatever.

Not in such a way that anyone feels entitled to the other one good will because they "pay", but in healthy relationships it's quite organic and natural. There's no need for resentment because friends are enjoying each other company and there for each other. One just happens to have more cash, not a big deal in itself.

Would she go to cafes /ice cream etc if not with you? You have set the precedent here... if you do resent it and it sounds like u do or are starting to then just meet for free/cheap stuff .., I was skint and just wouldn't go for coffee/get dc ice cream as it was too big a chunk of budget....so we all met and went home for lunch etc or went round each other's houses and brought a packet of biscuits/own lunch..you can still be friends but maybe not friends that lunch out...

If you want to meet in cafes then you will probably need to pick up the cost...

If I was your friend I would not feel at all comfortable with you paying for everything, regardless of whether you can afford it or not. Instead I would suggest outings where money needn’t be spent, so as others have suggested walks in the park, museums etc and I would take a few snacks along for all to share. She has no sense of pride if she is allowing you to pay all the time.

Isn't it the OP's point that she can afford it enjoys her friend's company and their DC get on ... but is getting a bit resentful and worried she's being taken for a ride?

Then an easy way round is to do as PP have said ... keep a more careful eye on the time and go home before lunches or coffees. OR suggest you all bring food and drinks for your own kids and plan a picnic with her.

I don't suppose she's a CF - just that both of you have developed habits of you paying because you both enjoy each other's company and you have facilitated it. You will know if she's a CF if the picnic suggestion doesn't work.

I think this is not really fair on you TBH. Over the course of a year thats around £1800 .00! .Surely she should recipricate every now and again? My friend and I will usually meet for a walk, or bring a coffee every now and then .No money changes hands at all! I would say to her (whether true or not!) that Covid has changed your spending patterns, and your income has dipped as well. Therefore you have reconsidered your priorities ,and are now spending less and saving more .Just take along a Thermos and some biscuits or suggest she do the same .Dont buy ices just bring along some Apples or satsumas instead.

This is terrible advice. It isn't up to the OP to try to coerce her poor friend into paying for things that she might not be able to afford. The OP has to be the one to retract her money spending as she is now resenting it.

Yes, you're right actually. If she truly has no spare money for those things, best thing to do is change the dynamic.

As a matter of interest OP do you have a husband? If so, he presumably knows this friend, whereas nobody here does. What does he think of the situation?