Inappropriate Father-Daughter relationship? *TRIGGER*

[SandMason]

Hi all. I’d really appreciate your views on my childhood relationship with my father. I feel something was not right but I don’t know how to understand it or what to call it. I’ve used impersonal language because writing ‘I’ and ‘me’ in this context makes me queasy. Here is some of what I remember:

• Daughter and her younger sister being naked a lot, around the house, for no particular reason, aged up to 5 at least
• Father naked a lot, around the house, likewise no reason
• Home video of daughters playing naked, aged 4 and 1, filmed by father
• Father and daughter age 5 showering together, and daughter asking him to ‘turn his willy inside out’ (retract foreskin). Daughter rushing to get younger sister to see this ‘magic trick’. Him doing it.
• Daughter, naked, in parents’ bed alone with father ‘tickling’ her lower abdomen right above pubic bone, drawing swirls with his finger. Aged under 5
• Holidays abroad including trips to naked beaches with parents’ friends, male and female, all naked. Up to age 6(?)
• Every Saturday visit with Father after parents split (daughter age 9+ up to mid-teen) involving swimming/sauna, Father getting changed (naked) with daughters whenever possible. Father mocking daughter’s attempts to change discreetly as prudish
• Father making comments about daughter’s developing breasts being ‘lovely’
• Teenage daughters sunbathing topless on family holidays, allowed and encouraged by father
• Father and wife taking daughters (age 13 and 10) to mixed Turkish baths in Turkey, daughters go topless. Father paying for them to have ‘Turkish massages’ by middle aged men in full view of everyone, ‘masseurs’ running hands up daughters’ legs and inner thighs under towel. Father and wife watching
• Father commenting frequently to daughter how ‘sexy’ women are (e.g. celebrities)
• Father and girlfriend having sex loudly in room next to teenage daughter, father going to bathroom naked afterwards
• Father entering bathroom while teenage daughter in bath to take a pee or brush teeth
• Father choosing for daughter’s A-Level school photography project a photo-story with sexual nudes
• Father asking adult daughter how the sex was in her marriage and whether she had stitches after childbirth
• Father hugging adult daughter after drunken argument (him drunk, not her) and pushing his hips against her as she tries to wriggle out of the hug

AIBU in thinking a lot of this is not okay? How would you feel if this was your daughter? Or if this was you? I’m still trying to get to grips with it after years telling myself it’s nothing out of the ordinary, despite having a creepy feeling around him. All comments welcome. Thanks for reading.

[CrowdedHouseinQuarantine]

does your sister have similar memories?
is your mother around?

[SandMason]

The scary thing is this what the child remembers. What on earth went on prior to the child remembering

This is what haunts me

[MargotMoon]

Agree that nakedness in the family and of small children is all absolutely fine, but no.4 onwards have all crossed the line.

Hope you are OK, OP. It's a horrible thing to come to terms with that what seemed normal at the time wasn't appropriate.

[MadeForThis]

I'm glad you are NC now.

Lots of those instances make me sick. It's not normal behaviour. It's abusive.

[flamingochill]

None of that is ok. It sounds like a paedophile's fantasy novel.

[picklemewalnuts]

There were some really sleazy set ups in the post hippy world, where free love, sexual liberation etc were used as validation for people being really creepy and abusive. I'm sorry you are having to come to terms with this. You were a child, deliberately groomed to think this was normal. I'm so sorry no one protected you.

[Bluebird3456]

This made my blood run cold. I'm sorry this happened to you OP and I hope you are seeking and getting whatever support you need. You never have to let him back into your life.

[CatFaceCats]

The first few I thought sounded normal - I have a 9 year old daughter who I still have to remind to wear underwear round the house as she has always been a ‘naked’ child. My children have seen me naked lots, as I don’t cover myself from shower to bedroom, or they come and chat when I’m in the bath. I do not, however, impose my nakedness on them.
But the rest, absolutely abuse. I’m so sorry OP

[spacepoppers]

That made for a very uncomfortable read. I'm so sorry, that is hideous. I hope you manage to deal with the things that happened to you and find a way to move forward with your life. Nobody should ever have to deal with that, let alone a child...and from a parent? It's honestly sickening.

[Thinkingabout1t]

Horrible abuse, all the worst because he was gaslighting you too. I'm so glad you have support now, OP, and I hope your sister is also recovering.
for you both.

[meow1989]

Oh op you poor thing. No, this isnt normal. Theres being comfortable being naked as a family and normal behaviour includes respecting boundaries, but what you described is plain abusive.

It's going to be incredibly hard to come to terms with these memories and I'm so glad you are in therapy/have support. Have you spoken to your sister about it? Do you have any contact with your mother? It sounds like she was aware of some of this (the tickling in parents bed) too...

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

Please thank to your sister before you decide what to do. I would have a chat with him about it. And whether I took it further or not, I would make sure that absolute old bastard never had a good night’s worry free sleep again.

[Thisisworsethananticpated]

Ah OP
Some very very messed up And screwed boundaries on this fathers part
Not In the least bit surprised That a daughter would feel very disturbed


Of this happened it’s worth getting some help to process
This is damaging stuff for someone to go through
Really

[StillWeRise]

OP I'm sorry this happened to you, and good that you have support IRL
I think that even if you don't want to report him, you should consider if he has contact with children now- not just in your own family/friends but bear in mind abusers now can abuse children remotely.

[Whenwillthisbeover]

Grim, made me feel sick. You are not to blame, you were right in thinking this is not normal.

[SandMason]

My sister and I have made a couple of nervous jokes to each other about creepy things he’s said, but never talked about it seriously.

My mother would almost certainly deny it all and say I was being silly (she has form for this over equally shocking issues).

There’s no way in hell I’d talk to my father about it, I feel like he might enjoy that conversation too much, relish the details, and still tell me I was being ridiculous

I’ve never been able to talk to anyone in my family about it because he never DID anything, iyswim. Any conversation would involve debating details, which I don’t think I could do. I’ve never even felt validated in calling it sexual abuse. That’s why I made this thread - I know you all don’t mince your words

[Abitouting]

Seriously disturbing reading OP. I'm so sorry you've experienced all of this

[Isleepinahedgefund]

The part that really turns my stomach is that your father seems to have been most “hands on” and interested when you were very little - the 5yr old stuff is really disturbing.

I’m so sorry for you and I’m glad you’re getting some help irl. I certainly wouldn’t let him near your children ever, especially if they are girls.

[MessyBess]

Some of the things listed can seem innocent enough and others seem suspect. None of that matters though, if you were uncomfortable then it was wrong, it’s as simple as that. I was sexually abused as a child for about ten years. Reading a lot of those things made me uncomfortable and reminded me of things from my own childhood.

[Oncewasblueandyellowtwo]

SandMason

Hope you are Ok, It must have taken a lot pit of you to write that all down.You are not to blame.

[JaffaJaffJaffpussycatpuss]

Totally inappropriate.
I was abused in a physical way (unsure if sexual or not) by my own mother and your experiences are way worse than mine.
I'm sorry this happened to you.

[ThickFast]

Do you think you’d ever get to a point where you would talk to your sister more seriously? Is she in contact with him? He sounds creepy as fuck, the comment about you and the actress is so grim.

[JaffaJaffJaffpussycatpuss]

As a reader, it got to 'abnormal' after number 3.
I sympathise greatly, my mother invaded my privacy, made me shower with my younger brother while she watched when I was starting to go through puberty, ripped my clothes off and stared at my naked body on numerous occasions among other stuff. You are not alone.
Agreed with Catfacecats, it's beyond naturism.

[Noconceptofnormal]

I think it might help you to show your therapist what you've written here so you don't actually have to say it. They help you process this in a healthy way.

I'm glad your NC with him and if you have children don't ever let them near him. Does your sister? Is she older or younger?

I do think after some therapy it would help to talk to your sister about it as it validates what happened and it's likely she has normalised it as well.

None of this is your fault, you were unfortunately born to a father who is a pervert and a paedophile and a mother who is weak and cowardly. You were a child, this is not your fault, you were not to realise, this would have l been normal to you, especially as it was quite subtle. I expect he thinks it's ok because he never actually crossed a line into physical abuse, but nonetheless it is as bad.

By the way, the only experience I had which was similar was my dad giving me zero privacy when I was in the bath as a teen. I specifically remember being incredulous when my mum said not to go into the bathroom (only had one) when my dad was in the bath and wondering why she couldn't see the hypocrisy.

[lilgreen]

Nearly all very unusual. We have 2 DDs, now older teens and DH hasn’t done any of those things and we are not prudes. I’m sorry .