Inappropriate Father-Daughter relationship? *TRIGGER*

[SandMason]

Hi all. I’d really appreciate your views on my childhood relationship with my father. I feel something was not right but I don’t know how to understand it or what to call it. I’ve used impersonal language because writing ‘I’ and ‘me’ in this context makes me queasy. Here is some of what I remember:

• Daughter and her younger sister being naked a lot, around the house, for no particular reason, aged up to 5 at least
• Father naked a lot, around the house, likewise no reason
• Home video of daughters playing naked, aged 4 and 1, filmed by father
• Father and daughter age 5 showering together, and daughter asking him to ‘turn his willy inside out’ (retract foreskin). Daughter rushing to get younger sister to see this ‘magic trick’. Him doing it.
• Daughter, naked, in parents’ bed alone with father ‘tickling’ her lower abdomen right above pubic bone, drawing swirls with his finger. Aged under 5
• Holidays abroad including trips to naked beaches with parents’ friends, male and female, all naked. Up to age 6(?)
• Every Saturday visit with Father after parents split (daughter age 9+ up to mid-teen) involving swimming/sauna, Father getting changed (naked) with daughters whenever possible. Father mocking daughter’s attempts to change discreetly as prudish
• Father making comments about daughter’s developing breasts being ‘lovely’
• Teenage daughters sunbathing topless on family holidays, allowed and encouraged by father
• Father and wife taking daughters (age 13 and 10) to mixed Turkish baths in Turkey, daughters go topless. Father paying for them to have ‘Turkish massages’ by middle aged men in full view of everyone, ‘masseurs’ running hands up daughters’ legs and inner thighs under towel. Father and wife watching
• Father commenting frequently to daughter how ‘sexy’ women are (e.g. celebrities)
• Father and girlfriend having sex loudly in room next to teenage daughter, father going to bathroom naked afterwards
• Father entering bathroom while teenage daughter in bath to take a pee or brush teeth
• Father choosing for daughter’s A-Level school photography project a photo-story with sexual nudes
• Father asking adult daughter how the sex was in her marriage and whether she had stitches after childbirth
• Father hugging adult daughter after drunken argument (him drunk, not her) and pushing his hips against her as she tries to wriggle out of the hug

AIBU in thinking a lot of this is not okay? How would you feel if this was your daughter? Or if this was you? I’m still trying to get to grips with it after years telling myself it’s nothing out of the ordinary, despite having a creepy feeling around him. All comments welcome. Thanks for reading.

[whiteroseredrose]

Definitely not normal nor ok.

I hope you are OK OP.

[Lou898]

I think if it was me and I felt uncomfortable about it and still do then it was clearly wrong.
If you had said my mother and father were naturists and often went to naturist beaches with other friends and us when we were younger but I feel uncomfortable about it now then that might have been different. Although a couple of things in this scenario would have been ok there are definitely others where the line would have been crossed.
You do need to talk to someone preferably a professional about this.
I wish you strength in sorting through this and coming to a conclusion you are happy with x

[londewy123]

Firstly I'm so sorry to read this. Your memories and thoughts about your dad are completely valid. Sure there's so much more you haven't written down and probably even stuff you've forgotten.

It sounds an awful lots like grooming/ abuse of parental power. Seems like your dad got off /gets off on putting you in sexual situations and seeing how you react to them. Absolutely not ok for a five year old and so traumatising for adult you to process. Also it's that whole gaslighting behaviour where you know you've been violated but he's been sneaky and abhorrent and hasn't done anything grossly, blatantly abusive- it's just been insidious over your whole lifetime.


In one of the first examples, you mentioned another daughter -your sister- have you discussed your upbringing with her? How does she feel about your dad?
Can you speak to anyone about your dad outside your family but who knows him, ie partner, close friend- if so, what do they think of your dad? I can only imagine what a vulnerable conversation that would be for you but could help to get more understanding.

How often do you speak to your dad? It may be helpful for you to seek proper counselling now, or enrol in a support group.

I'm afraid I've had my own issues with abusive parents but never veered into sexual. However, from what I do know the abuser is ALWAYS the victim, you are ALWAYS interpreting it wrong / bringing the abuse upon yourself. Abusers have an excuse for everything.
I just want to remind you that none of this is your fault and your dad should never have put you in those situations where you felt shamed or weird, or worse.
I hope you can find professional help to really work through this and hopefully either fully cut ties with your dad or severely limit how often you speak.
I don't know if it's a good idea to speak to your dad about his behaviour? But perhaps a professional or someone with a better understanding of how you can move on from it all can answer that one.

[Sexnotgender]

Awful, grooming from a young age.

[BeNiceToYourSister]

Please talk to a professional about this OP. What you describe is abuse (but not uncommon, sadly). I’m so sorry this happened and I really hope you have a good support system around you

[Foxesinsockses]

I feel a bit sick reading this. It's reminding me a lot of my own childhood (and a few incidents in adulthood as well). Isolated incidents that would sound bonkers if you made a huge deal of them but altogether listed like that is just all shades of wrong. My dad used to visit me what I was a skint student and instead of just handing me cash to help me out, insisted on giving me a hug and reaching around to stuff it down my pants. Bought me lingerie sets as a 9 year old that I had to model. Told me if I wasn't his daughter he would 'love me a whole lot more'.

Never addressed. Never mentioned. Never told anyone. We get on fine now (distance helps) but I'm not keen on his close physical proximity.

And I have never, ever left my girls alone with him.

I feel all kinds of weird about this, but the fact is for me and for you that no, it's wasn't okay.

Sending my supportive thought to you.

[ballsdeep]

That doesn't sound good op.
The kids being naked part up to five is normal in my house but with everything else it's worrying I hope you're ok

[OoohTheStatsDontLie]

We are naked quite a lot in our house (children 5 and 2.5). I have no problem being naked infront of them as I think it's nothing to be ashamed off and normalised different shaped womans bodies. Also I have funny videos of them naked - this week having a water fight as their swimming costumes were wet and they didnt want to put them back on. So first few points on their own wouldn't bother me. Most other points are deeply disturbing though and have sexual associations or show a massive lack of respect for other peoples boundaries. Eg nudity is fine but if anyone especially a growing child is becoming uncomfortable with it, it's not fine

[CluelessBaker]

That is not at all normal or appropriate, and I am so sorry you went through this. It is definitely abusive behaviour.

[JoysOfString]

Oh OP :( I had a dad like this. With him it went further and he was ultimately (more recently) convicted, which in a way is easier as then it's very clear that it was wrong. But he also did pretty much everything you describe. In particular the nudist scenarios and saying you're a prude if you wanted privacy, really resonate with me because those things are used to make you feel it's normal, and that was one of the worst parts of it for me.

When you're a child growing up with this, of course it's really hard to understand what is and isn't OK because it's your environment from birth, and your parents are supposed to be the ones who help you learn all the boundaries and what's acceptable. It took me a long, long time to really understand just how bad it was and stop downplaying it to myself. I remember having moments of realisation, especially through my teenage years but I still have them now and I'm in my 50s.

He's dead now and I was estranged from him for most of my adult life. What you do is of course for you to decide but I want you to know you have every right never to see him again if that's what you want.

A hug seems wrong IYSWIM but here are my sympathies with and wishing you strength. I agree counselling could be really helpful - I've had plenty! And most importantly, though you were groomed to accept this, it is not your fault and you did nothing wrong.

[Ellie56]

No most of that is definitely not ok. Your dad is a creep and sexually abusive.

I hope you are ok and have RL support OP.

[Disfordarkchocolate]

Some sound normal but it pretty soon gets passed 'more comfortable with nudity' to abusive. Retracting his foreskin like a party trick, this made me feel sick.

[SandMason]

Thank you all so much for your replies, I wasn’t expecting so many so quickly (first post on MN) and am so grateful. I’ll try and answer some of the questions now

[IdblowJonSnow]

Echo what everyone else has said. Sorry op. Some counselling might be really helpful for you?
Does he have access to any children now?
I would cut him off and report to the police but that's obviously your call to make.
If he did half of that stuff now he could be imprisoned.

[FlameFartingDragon]

It is not OK. Anything that makes you feel uncomfortable is not OK.

Take care of yourself.

[DariaMorgendorffer]

I had to stop reading after the first four or five. Not normal or appropriate op. Hope you're ok and so glad you posted....you'll have plenty support here

[evrey]

Your father sounds like a massive creep at best but in my opinion a child abuser. He over stepped and is still over stepping huge boundary's for his own gratification.

I don't think this has anything to do with children running around naked.as most parents would not be watching, filming or getting any thrill from this as he obviously was.

I'm sorry you have to go through this OP . Please believe that this is not yours or your sisters fault . Many abusers are subtle , they don't always hurt children, they make them believe it is normal Then the victims grow up and realise it wasnt normal and it wasnt ok.

[MsMeNz]

🤮 I have known what I'd call a naked family just naturists parents were hippies etc i.didnt think anything wrong with it other not a life I'd choose. However what you described above if far more sexualised and you have every right to be upset.

[MoreCookiesPlease]

This all sounds horrible. Some on their own sound acceptable and normal, but in context with all the other incidents - this is sexual abuse.
I'm so sorry. Have you got support in real life? Are you able to access counselling?
Please keep your children away from him.

[SandMason]

So I have seen a therapist but these points about my dad have come up slowly one by one, I hadn’t put it all together in one place before now

[Livingoffcoffee]

Kids under 5 playing at home naked I don't think is weird, but after that - and putting it all together - I think we all know is not okay.

I'm sorry OP. I hope you are okay now and dealing with this. And I hope he is not in your (or children's?) life now.

[Yorkiee]

Most importantly, if you have children keep them away from him.

[Oysterbabe]

Stuff that doesn't seem creepy or weird (like young children being naked a lot, mine have barely worn clothes this week) become creepy and weird when combined with some of the other obviously abusive behaviour.

[FizzyGreenWater]

OP

To clarify. We have always been quite relaxed about nudity, but my DH definitely started covering up in front of our daughter from the age of, probably 6-7 on? It was never made a big deal of but that kind of chnge SHOULD happen quite naturally I think. Being simply naked in front of young children, and them being naked, is perfectly natural and ok - but absolutely NONE of the context for any of your father's actions/attitude is in any way ok, from (it seems) toddlerhood on.

[ComDummings]

That is sexual abuse, I hope you’re OK OP