Guys who say 'I need a woman who can challenge me'

[Stella8686]

Is this ever a good statement? Do men think that women find it an attractive profile line?

Is it just me who reads it as
'I wore down my ex so much that she died a little inside and never spoke up for herself, therefor it's her fault the relationship broke down'

Extreme example above but AIBU to discount guys who say this (online) does anyone like this statement?

A man who genuinely wanted that might well think it an acceptable thing to write in a profile

But as I've said before, how come you never get women specifying that they want a 'man who can challenge them'? Is it because it's accepted that women want men who are at least their intellectual equal whereas many men don't? And these men think they are doing women a great favour by allow them to 'challenge' them with 'fiercely intelligent' discourse?

The Posh Spice Paradox is bang on the money. Should be a requirement in any relationship but shouldn't need spelling out.

Anyone who goes out of their way to say they enjoy being challenged is probably desperately trying to make themself sound more intelligent.

On the other hand I guess someone specifying a woman who doesn't challenge them is far worse!

@IcedPurple

A man who genuinely wanted that might well think it an acceptable thing to write in a profile

But as I've said before, how come you never get women specifying that they want a 'man who can challenge them'? Is it because it's accepted that women want men who are at least their intellectual equal whereas many men don't? And these men think they are doing women a great favour by allow them to 'challenge' them with 'fiercely intelligent' discourse?

Well that’s another discussion entirely!

Of course a lot of it will be down to sexism/misogyny and other less than ideal patterns of perception that feed into what many men and women want, or think they want, or say they want.

Incidentally i did my DH the favour of allowing him the chance to be challenged by me and my discourse, not the other way around. And he knows it, too.

Anyway I’ve no desire to derail this thread any further and I accept that there are others more qualified to judge on the OLD arena than I will ever be, so I happily defer to their wisdom.

The very first thing I said on this thread still stands, as far as I’m concerned:

It absolutely can be a good thing. It can also be a red flag.

But perhaps OLD isn’t the best arena in which to leave space for nuance...

As to fierce discourse and how often one might have things to discuss, I’m not going to give examples, but there are plenty. We’ve been together 12 years now and of course some specific things no longer need to be said - we’ve each come round to each other’s points of view in some respects and in others we agree to disagree, so no, of course it’s not a matter of constant discussion and debate. However we still have plenty of things to talk about and likely always will. It’s who we are, but it might not be that way for everyone. I like a challenge. Other people might prefer a quiet, cosy life. I like that too, in moderation.

@Stella8686 I hope you find a great guy!

The replies are a lot more revealing than the statement in the OP.

@GinDaddyRedux

This is one of the funniest threads I've read on here, and I've been around for a couple of years now so that's saying something.

This is also a lovely reminder of why I married a North American feminist who's happy in herself.

So much bitterness it's like watching a group of people queue up to find different ways of saying "Jack from Accounts is a tart" when none of you have ever met him, but it means you all look "in" with each other by giving him a good kicking.

I swear I've read part of this post before on another forum but with "Eastern European woman" instead of "North American feminist".

Must be some weird kind of deja vu.

@PotholeParadise

that's a really snide and veiled dig at stereotypes around Eastern European women btw. Hardly the sisterhood.

Well I've enjoyed the thread OP, thank you. I've gained 'Posh Spice Paradox' (perfect) and a flashback realisation that the film Boxing Helena (which I never saw and probably never will) was (almost certainly) rather a good metaphor.

Sorry it hasn't worked out so well for you this time OP. Onwards and upwards!

Thanks all, I come across this more than once. I think it's meant to imply that they don't want a doormat. But by saying ' I want a woman who can challenge me' it immediately makes me think 'no, you don't'

It's actually really hard to write a good sounding phrase for 'I don't want a doormat' you can pick apart all these cliches and profiles.

Getting to know someone should slow you to naturally converse and discuss.

He said this about 2 weeks ago so the chance to ask him to explain had gone. I went off him for a while and didn't chat much. We chatted a little bit for a couple weeks and had a few phone conversations this week. The fact that he accepted that I wasn't meeting up with him and he was happy to keep chatting even though I had cooled off made me think it was a good sign. ie. not lost interest because It's not moving fast.

Anyway he'd pissed me off last night and I was trying to remember why I cooled off on him in the first place and it was that stupid phrase.

It can be and honest cliched OLD line made with good intentions but as someone else succinctly said it can also mean 'arsehole'

@AnyFucker 👏

@lottiegarbanzo I totally meant to ask
Posh spice paradox,

What is that?

Posh Spice Paradox was MrsTerryPratchett's phrase upthread. Essentially 'if you have to say it, it ain't true'.

@SuperFurryDoggy that is exactly my concern

Wants the challenge so the 'win' feels better. And he will always win

Sorry OP but as others have said, this is usually a red flag. I've had many messages saying "you seem strong, I need a woman like you to keep me in line" or something along those lines.

I usually reply "I need a man who is mature enough to keep himself in line and a relationship based on respect and understanding. I'm not here to adopt a man child, sorry and good luck"

Never have I had a reply after that, they clearly do not want a woman to keep them in line after all..

[quote GinDaddyRedux]@PotholeParadise

that's a really snide and veiled dig at stereotypes around Eastern European women btw. Hardly the sisterhood.[/quote]
Yes, it is, isn't it. That would be why I thought the man was a misogynistic little twerp.

Here's a hint. The same lines with a different nationality in place aint that different.

Although actually I think you're being unfair; he wasn't trying to be snide about Eastern European women...

(I hope she LTB one day.)

@PotholeParadise I’ve seen a very similar line used before. On another feminist forum I used to use we had a chap who would regularly come and tell us about his Asian wife who was apparently doing womanhood better than us. I think we were supposed to feel chastened that we hadn’t managed to bag ourselves such a Prince

Incidentally i did my DH the favour of allowing him the chance to be challenged by me and my discourse, not the other way around. And he knows it, too.

I think you might need to remind us once again of how fiercely intelligent you and your challenging discourse are. Some people might not have got the message yet.

that's a really snide and veiled dig at stereotypes around Eastern European women btw. Hardly the sisterhood

I think you may just have missed the point.

Why did you feel the need to tell us that your wife was a 'North American feminist'? Aside from the suspicion that you may have an idiosyncratic idea of 'feminism', what does it matter what continent your wife comes from?

Not getting in a really snide and not so veiled dig at British women by any chance, are you?

"I think you might need to remind us once again of how fiercely intelligent you and your challenging discourse are. Some people might not have got the message yet."

🤣🤣

Mrsfrumble

Lucky, lucky woman. We had another one who used to earnestly explain that western feminism had gone too far and he was definitely right because his 'eastern european' girlfriend agreed with him.

She was always referred to as 'eastern european'. No more specific or in depth than that, so I came to suspect that she was entirely imaginary.

@PotholeParadise Ah yes, the 'Of course I support equality for women, but feminism has gone too far in the west' red flag. What they actually mean is 'I kind of have to say I believe in feminism, but what I really want is a woman with 'traditional values' who 'knows her place' and depends on me for her visa'.

Yup. Run as far and as fast as Paula Radcliffe whenever you hear that.

@IcedPurple

Incidentally i did my DH the favour of allowing him the chance to be challenged by me and my discourse, not the other way around. And he knows it, too.

I think you might need to remind us once again of how fiercely intelligent you and your challenging discourse are. Some people might not have got the message yet.

You’re the one who addressed me, repeating what I had said. And I in response used the words and context you had used to make my point which was I don’t wait for a man to deign to listen. I expect everyone to listen if they’re going to be worth my time (I listen too, of course, but that’s beside the point in this context); He got the chance to match up to me, not the other way around.

It’s not my fault that you keep quoting me, is it? I was happy to say it once and had no intention of mentioning it again.

Do you find it distasteful or otherwise challenging when a woman knows she is smart and is forthright enough to unashamedly say so?Because you seem to be bristling at that, and you probably should examine what unconscious bias is causing that reaction.

Obviously IRL there’s no need for me to go around announcing ‘I’m clever and I enjoy challenging discourse, fierce intellectual sparring and a properly exciting exchange of ideas and subsequent depth of connection more than almost anything else other than really good sex, and I find a man who can match my appetite for both incredibly attractive’ - people will find that out soon enough, where appropriate. But here it was relevant to the answer I gave so I said it. If you have a problem with that then that really is your problem to deal with.

Do you find it distasteful or otherwise challenging when a woman knows she is smart and is forthright enough to unashamedly say so?

You're starting to sound like a parody now!

Although nobody asked for the information, we do all get the fact that you're a woman of searing intellect and biting wit with a love for "fierce intellectual sparring" - whatever that is when it's at home.

We get it. We do. Really.

[quote GinDaddyRedux]@PotholeParadise

that's a really snide and veiled dig at stereotypes around Eastern European women btw. Hardly the sisterhood.[/quote]
The way I read it, the target of the joke was you. That was a daft post you wrote earlier.

None of this trying to invalidate and shut women up by invoking this mysterious "sisterhood", please.