Why would this woman split up two families?

[Ihavetochangemyname]

I've got a bit of a weird AIBU and probably wouldn't dream of airing this in real life but think it's one that the MNetters would be helpful with.

I appreciate its a first world problem and if it bothers me so much don't engage with social media, etc, etc. But I have read it and it's bothered me so much this weekend I can't stop thinking of it. Here it is.

A couple of years ago I met a nice lady socially, via Slimming World. We hit it off. I didn't see her outside of SW, but always sat next to her and chatted. I left SW about a year ago and desperately want to go back when it reopens for group. We were friends on Facebook and I commented on her photos, the usual. She seemed very happily married, two lovely kids.

Anyway, she's not an oversharer on FB, but I noticed she'd put sad emojis up which she doesn't usually do. After a bit of probing around it appears her husband has left her for her best friend and next door neighbour!! He's moved in next door with the neighbour and her son, splitting up two families.

I'm mortified, it's none of my business, really isn't but I'm so sad I can't stop thinking of her. I'm appalled that a woman can do this to another? Am I just totally naive?

@LaurieMarlow

You're continuing to attack a vulnerable rape survived because?

Why blame only the woman? Did she kidnap the man?

[quote Gulabjamoon]@Sizedoesmatter

While I agree with your overall point, thats a pretty shitty and uncalled for comparison. As a victim of rape, its really not nice to see the worst thing that's ever happened to you being used argue about a man and woman's willingness to cheat on their partners. They aren't on the same level and shouldn't be compared. Prove your point in a more tasteful way or don't bother.

I disagree, it' a valid comparison. For all you know, @Ochon may also be a victim of rape. I'm sorry about what happened to you.[/quote]
You don't need to agree for it to be offensive and in poor taste. If she is a victim of rape, it doesn't diminish the fact I found the comparison triggering and upsetting. Rape and sexual assault are not things to be thrown around to prove an argument, particularly one regarding consensual sex between two adults that has abseloutley nothing to do with it.

I think they deserve each other. Hopefully she'll have a head start when he starts cheating again. Might be able to spot the signs

You're continuing to attack a vulnerable rape survived because?

I’m not attacking you, I’m asking you to question your assumptions.

I’m very sorry you’ve had that experience, truly, but I can’t agree that women are ever, in any circumstances, the gatekeepers of men’s penises.

I didn’t make the original comparison, but the logic of it stacks up. I’m sorry if you find it difficult to stomach, I expect it may take time.

Sadandlonely2020, I'm responding directly but not tagging you in case this is triggering you further and you'd prefer to leave the thread. But if you have decided to stay, I'm sorry you've been through such a horrible experience. I truly am.

FWIW, I was once a victim of gang-rape. I've also been stalked twice, and have been sexually harrassed in the workplace. I understand fully why you find this comparison triggering and offensive, and I don't seek to invalidate this. But from the perspective of a similar situation I respond differently. This is why.

The first response I received in relation to the first and most serious of these assaults was highly contradictory. I was simultaneously victim-blame ('it's your fault because you're a slut') and invalidated (I don't believe you anyway'). These responses came from my own father, which I later came to see was a form of mental abuse in itself.

I don't find the above comparison offensive because I understand the kind of narratives that fuel what I know is a very socially-ingrained response. You've only got to go back online and read the responses to #MeToo. Women who speak of this are jumping on the bandwagon. They should have reported it 20 years ago, and now that they've missed the opportunity, they should shut up (a complete lack of recognition is betrayed here as to the effect of extreme trauma). Women who lie about rape are worse than the men who rape. The justice system is skewed in their favour (one of the worst untruths of all). Women are more likely to be liars than men are to be rapists. If they were indeed raped it must be their fault because a) there was an exchange of text messages b) their skirt was too short, c) they were intoxicated, and d) add other weak excuses ad nauseum.

The experience of being raped is awful enough. And having been punished badly enough by the crime in itself, you then receive the added 'privilege', if you talk about it, of having to navigate the indignity of responses like the above.

The fuel driving this thoroughly toxic narrative, just like the narrative that women are to blame if men cheat, is exactly the same. A deep, ingrained, systemic, institutional, social and individual misogyny.

It's a painful situation, but my response differs in that I believe it needs saying. If it continues to be rugswept, it's playing right into the hands of those who believe women's response to having the temerity to be sexually assaulted should be silence.

If it is, we have little hope that anything will change.

Yes of course I'm appalled at the husband, I'm appalled at both of them.

But you seem to be more appalled at her and you’ve made a thread about how awful she is.

As bloody per usual all the attention is on the woman in this scenario and the man is just an afterthought. No doubt his wife is the same and is more mad at her than her lying cheating husband 🤷🏼‍♀️

@Sizedoesmatter that rape comparison is sadly very common as unfortunately it's true. Women are often blamed for their rape and I disagree that it's offensive to rape survivors. Victim blaming is more offensive to rape survivors.

I'm sorry you found it triggering and upsetting.

[quote Gulabjamoon]@Sizedoesmatter that rape comparison is sadly very common as unfortunately it's true. Women are often blamed for their rape and I disagree that it's offensive to rape survivors. Victim blaming is more offensive to rape survivors.

I'm sorry you found it triggering and upsetting.[/quote]
Well as a rape survivor I'm telling you that it's offensive to me, and there's another on the thread saying the very same. As I said, I agreed with her over all point but the comparison is not necessary. I'm not going to sit here and argue with you about it, don't speak for me or other rape survivors thank you very much. Speak for yourself, as I have.

How the bloody fuck has this got onto rape?

Jesus.

A consensual affair is nothing like a sex offence.

YABU for blaming the woman over the man.

And what has victim blaming got to do with it? Just because one thing is bad doesn't mean another can't be aswell. Give it over.

@ShinyFootball

How the bloody fuck has this got onto rape?

Jesus.

A consensual affair is nothing like a sex offence.

Exactly.

You would rather attack a rape victim

No-one attacked a survivor of rape. You may find the comparison offensive or inappropriate, but it was not an attack on victims of sex crimes. It clearly an attack on those who put the responsibility on victims rather than rapists.

A consensual affair is nothing like a sex offence.

It isn't, that's true. But it's interesting that the policing of women's sexual behaviour is very similar in both scenarios. In the case of rape, of course, it's much more extreme. But the rhetoric is predictably familiar.

A consensual affair is nothing like a sex offence

No it is not. That is not where the comparison was being made. The comparison was to making women responsible for men's sexual choices.

@ShinyFootball

How the bloody fuck has this got onto rape?

Jesus.

A consensual affair is nothing like a sex offence.

I was going to say exactly this. This comparison is disgusting. Two people having an affair is not, in any way, comparable to someone being raped. Both parties have legitimate reason to be blamed and bear responsibility for an affair if both know that it is an adulterous relationship. Only one person can be blamed for a rape. It’s a very poor analogy.

They might want to but if women decide to keep their hands of another woman's husband they won't be able to

OMG I can't believe that in 2020 were still,seeing such blatant sexism. Relationships end for lots of reasons. Sometimes people find someone else and leave - sometimes that person is a woman. Like me. I left my ex fiance for another man. It was the trigger I needed to leave a total and utter bastard. It was just a fling and we ended it all very amicably when I went to Africa to work for a while.
If I hadn't cheated on my fiancé I would have ended up marrying him and believe me if I may not have been alive today. If I was I would be a very different person.

Even if every woman took a pledge not to get involved with a married man - would it suddenly Save those marriages?

The answer you're looking for is no.

Some people see an affair as a way of escaping a marriage they don't want to stay in.

Other people like the thrill of an affair and so may well lie about their marital status in order to get laid.

Shit happens. If my husband had an affair now I would be furious at him. Not at the woman.

If I had one. He'd be furious at me.

No one knows what really goes on in a marriage other than the people in it. Sometimes people can lie about how happy they are, put on a brave face.....sometimes they are trying desperately to tell their spouse how unhappy they are, but that person isn't listening. So the affair is the way out.

Only one person can be blamed for a rape.

Except that in practice, if such a situation has ever happened to you, you know that this doesn't happen. 'Victim-blaming' is a thing. It's reality, it happens frequently, and the narrative that drives it is probably instantly recognised by anyone of the female sex who hasn't happened to internalise at least some of it. Even by victims themselves, who internalise the shame and somehow believe that what happened to them was their fault. I've done it. I should know.

These are illusions we should be trying to break. The underlying cause of every last one of them is exactly the same. It's a serious point and a very apt analogy.

Two people having an affair is not, in any way, comparable to someone being raped.

I think people are getting confused. No one is saying a women who has an affair is the same as a rape victim. SadandLonely said men wouldn't be able to have affairs if women kept their hands off another woman's husband. And Ochon said this is similar to blaming women for getting raped by venturing in places where rapists lurk.

The common factor here is absolving the man and blaming the woman.

YABU for only mentioning in your opening post that that the woman has split up 2 families when it was both of them.

However back to your point, your poor friend. The pain when someone hurts you like this is awful. I can’t imagine how much worse it is when it happens on your doorstep and they’re playing happy families next door!

Awww, this didn’t go the way you hoped it would did it.

The husband did the dirty, he took the vows, not the NDN!

@sadandlonely2020 and @Sizedoesmatter

I apologise for offending you both. It was not my intention.

its really not nice to see the worst thing that's ever happened to you being used argue about a man and woman's willingness to cheat on their partners.

My point was that it is never the woman's fault if a man cheats. I had initially challenged @sadandlonely2020's claim that men only cheat because women are willing to sleep with them, by saying that men only cheat because they want to. She came back again insisting that the OW was solely to blame for men cheating.

I believe the only one responsible for the man's behaviour is the man himself so I drew a comparison with rape, where victim blaming is common. I expected her to believe, as any right thinking person does, that the only person responsible for the rape is the man and hoped that she would then extrapolate that to men's behaviour in other arenas and see how ridiculous she is being to hold the woman fully accountable for the man's behaviour.

I accept that using rape as the comparator was potentially triggering and that cheating and rape are in no way comparable. I apologise for the offence caused and I hope you have been able to get the help you, in common with all victims of rape, need to move on as much as is possible.

[quote OchonAgusOchonO]**@sadandlonely2020 and @Sizedoesmatter

I apologise for offending you both. It was not my intention.

its really not nice to see the worst thing that's ever happened to you being used argue about a man and woman's willingness to cheat on their partners.

My point was that it is never the woman's fault if a man cheats. I had initially challenged @sadandlonely2020's claim that men only cheat because women are willing to sleep with them, by saying that men only cheat because they want to. She came back again insisting that the OW was solely to blame for men cheating.

I believe the only one responsible for the man's behaviour is the man himself so I drew a comparison with rape, where victim blaming is common. I expected her to believe, as any right thinking person does, that the only person responsible for the rape is the man and hoped that she would then extrapolate that to men's behaviour in other arenas and see how ridiculous she is being to hold the woman fully accountable for the man's behaviour.

I accept that using rape as the comparator was potentially triggering and that cheating and rape are in no way comparable. I apologise for the offence caused and I hope you have been able to get the help you, in common with all victims of rape, need to move on as much as is possible.[/quote]
Thanks for explaining, as I said originally I agree with your overall point, just not the way in which you tried to prove it. But I can see a little bit more now what you mean, and while I still think it's in poor taste, I understand what you mean and I appreciate that you didn't just jump on the defense and try to tell me what is or isn't offensive. We'll leave it there as I can see you're not being intentionally hurtful 😊