Why would this woman split up two families?

[Ihavetochangemyname]

I've got a bit of a weird AIBU and probably wouldn't dream of airing this in real life but think it's one that the MNetters would be helpful with.

I appreciate its a first world problem and if it bothers me so much don't engage with social media, etc, etc. But I have read it and it's bothered me so much this weekend I can't stop thinking of it. Here it is.

A couple of years ago I met a nice lady socially, via Slimming World. We hit it off. I didn't see her outside of SW, but always sat next to her and chatted. I left SW about a year ago and desperately want to go back when it reopens for group. We were friends on Facebook and I commented on her photos, the usual. She seemed very happily married, two lovely kids.

Anyway, she's not an oversharer on FB, but I noticed she'd put sad emojis up which she doesn't usually do. After a bit of probing around it appears her husband has left her for her best friend and next door neighbour!! He's moved in next door with the neighbour and her son, splitting up two families.

I'm mortified, it's none of my business, really isn't but I'm so sad I can't stop thinking of her. I'm appalled that a woman can do this to another? Am I just totally naive?

Unfortunately, it really is a small logical next step to go from "husbands wouldn't cheat if women didn't make it possible" to "rapists wouldn't rape if women didn't make it possible".

As PPs have said, while they're obviously different circumstances, the common denominator is a man behaving like a total sexual shit and the woman getting the blame.

We've had thousands of years of this narrative. Don't expect it to be eradicated in the comparatively short time women have had enough of a voice to refute it. But we can start by questioning our own interpretation of events. And yes, when a man shits all over his family and people's response is "How could SHE do this?", we've got the nub of the problem right there.

@Sizedoesmatter - thank you for your understanding.

@Gulabjamoon

Two people having an affair is not, in any way, comparable to someone being raped.

I think people are getting confused. No one is saying a women who has an affair is the same as a rape victim. SadandLonely said men wouldn't be able to have affairs if women kept their hands off another woman's husband. And Ochon said this is similar to blaming women for getting raped by venturing in places where rapists lurk.

The common factor here is absolving the man and blaming the woman.

This comparison only stands up if you believe that the “other woman” never deserves any blame at all (even, as in this case, she is a friend of the wife) because that’s true of rape victims. They never deserve any responsibility for the crime at all.

@AllTheUserNames - but the comparison was made in response to a post saying the OW always bears the responsibility, which is what it often feels like with rape. Not sure why the comparison has to be exactly like for like? Ochon's point was clear to me and others, including survivors of rape.

It makes me very uncomfortable that all such discussion can be shut down. It's important they be discussed in the open.

[quote Gulabjamoon]@AllTheUserNames - but the comparison was made in response to a post saying the OW always bears the responsibility, which is what it often feels like with rape. Not sure why the comparison has to be exactly like for like? Ochon's point was clear to me and others, including survivors of rape.

It makes me very uncomfortable that all such discussion can be shut down. It's important they be discussed in the open.[/quote]
I think it’s in poor taste. I also think it’s a lazy analogy. I’ve made it clear why I think that.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks I agree with your post

OP, I sympathise. I'd think both the husband and the OW are shits. But I'd certainly feel more disgusted by someone who did that to their supposed "best friend". Half of all marriages (I think) end in divorce, but betrayal by a best friend is less common, so more shocking.

I hope you can get back to your group, and use your kind-hearted feelings to support and comfort your friend. She needs real friends more than ever.

Half of all marriages (I think) end in divorce, but betrayal by a best friend is less common, so more shock'

How many marriages end because the husband had an affair with his wife’s best friend?

This comparison only stands up if you believe that the “other woman” never deserves any blame at all (even, as in this case, she is a friend of the wife)

The ow is never to blame for the man's decision to have an affair. He is completely responsible for his actions.

Is the ow in this case a crap, disloyal friend? Yes, absolutely. Is she ill-advised to have an affair with a man who has so little respect for the mother of his children that he would have a affair with her friend? Yes.

But is she responsible for him deciding to cheat on his wife? Absolutely not.

The other woman ( or man) gets a good portion of blame not because of sexism but because the problems in the marriage aren’t his or her issue.
As a single woman ( or man) your criteria should be a relationship with another single person. If the person you fancy is married you wait until they are separated or divorced.The marriage isn’t anything to do with you. That’s why people get so upset with them. It’s absolutely a choice to hurt the uninvolved partner .

The married person obviously has blame but they are in the marriage. In effect it’s not a choice ; they are already part of the problem. They know if they don’t want to be in the marriage it’s going to hurt the person they said they’d love forever regardless of staying, cheating or separating.

YABU to be appalled at the woman and not at the husband.

I don't know do people blame the other man in an affair the same way they do the other woman though? I've heard the phrase 'if there were no dirty women there'd be no dirty men' time and time again, but I've never once heard it reversed.

I do think that a woman who knowingly has sex with a man she knows is in a relationship, is a horrible excuse for a woman. However, she is not solely to blame by any means, and if it were a case that my DH had an affair, it would be him who had ultimitly hurt me.

I don't know, it's a tough one. I've been in a situation where I had sex with a man, and only later found out that he'd had a long term girlfriend. I felt abseloutley awful, I still do anytime I see her as she comes up on my Facebook sometimes. I told him he was disgusting and never to talk to me again and the two of them are still together. But had I known, I never, ever would have had sex with him. I could never knowingly hurt another woman in that manner. And I do think any person who could has very little morals or empathy. Male or female, it really doesn't matter to me. But to society it very clearly does.

I have to say @ShebaShimmyShake Is this all you've got? Absolute made up bollocks that nobody even implied? your aggressive response to me and others to ‘be right’ is the most unsisterly and dogmatic views. I respected everyone’s opinion and you do not even engage in debate but slam other women for daring to say that they would ALSO blame a woman for knowingly hurting another woman by engaging in an affair. You haven’t even read my post.

There was a huge amount of over the top angry slamming down of women here in this thread for voicing similar opinions, that BOTH parties are equally to blame for cheating. No one who voiced this was trying to slam down others who blamed a man only and thought women bore no judgement.

We have to be able to air and voice our opinions without bullying others. Especially as women. Otherwise we become the bullies that we blame men for.

Op. This isn’t an unpleasant place. In fact mumsnetters can be highly supportive, but your op wasn’t a typo your title and your op both focused on why the woman would do this, when actually it was the man who committed the bigger crime.

That’s what people are upset about. The question is why did he do this to his wife and rhe answer is no one knows what was going on in their marriage,.

If the woman was married she has broken up her own family.

The man has broken up his family.

'unsisterly' I don't like that either.

It's another guilt tripping/ standard etc that applies to women but not men.

Has there been mention on the thread (not read the more recent posts) that the man who left was being 'unbrotherly' to the woman's husband???

Happy to be pointed to it if so. It's not an expression I've heard in this context every tbh. The one I have heard is 'bros before hoes' which is awful and used to justify the most awful behaviour towards women.

There was a huge amount of over the top angry slamming down of women here in this thread for voicing similar opinions, that BOTH parties are equally to blame for cheating.

I think the problem here is that people are confusing blame and judgement. Those saying the ow is not to blame are saying that she is not responsible for the decision the man makes and that claiming she is, is a regressive attitude that does nothing to advance the inequality, sexism and excessive judgement that women face daily.

Nobody is saying that what is ow is doing is a good thing or a desirable way to act. However, she is responsible for her own actions. Nobody else is to blame for them. In the same way, the man is responsible for his actions. Nobody else is to blame for them.

This discussion started with a poster stating that the only reason married men have affairs is because women are willing to sleep with them. That is like me claiming the only reason I'm fat is because my diabetic dh buys sweets to have in case he goes low on sugar and I keep eating them. I am responsible for my choices and actions. Nobody else.

@Socialdistancegintonic

I have to say *@ShebaShimmyShake* Is this all you've got? Absolute made up bollocks that nobody even implied? your aggressive response to me and others to ‘be right’ is the most unsisterly and dogmatic views. I respected everyone’s opinion and you do not even engage in debate but slam other women for daring to say that they would ALSO blame a woman for knowingly hurting another woman by engaging in an affair. You haven’t even read my post.

There was a huge amount of over the top angry slamming down of women here in this thread for voicing similar opinions, that BOTH parties are equally to blame for cheating. No one who voiced this was trying to slam down others who blamed a man only and thought women bore no judgement.

We have to be able to air and voice our opinions without bullying others. Especially as women. Otherwise we become the bullies that we blame men for.

I did read your post, as evidenced by the fact that I refuted it quite thoroughly. I maintain that your idea, explicitly stated, that we should fight misogyny by blaming women when men stray is so utterly risible that it's hard to believe you could seriously think it. I disagree with the notion that outside parties are responsible for other people's marriages, but I really, really disagree that holding women equally responsible for men's indiscretions is a tool to fight misogyny.

If you do seriously believe that, I've no reason to think you would recognise "unsisterly" discourse if you saw it. But if you believe it, then I'm also not surprised that you're trying to weaponise the idea of "sisterhood" to invalidate what I'm saying. I don't believe in holding women to higher moral standards than men, and if we don't have any notions of a "brotherhood" making it more wrong for a man to sleep with a married woman, I don't see why we need a feminine equivalent.
So you can't try to invalidate me that way either. Sorry, but the fact that we are both women doesn't mean that I can't disagree with you robustly.

As it is, though, that's irrelevant anyway. You are free to dislike my tone, but that's entirely separate to the actual points I made. All the rest about my needing to be right or whatever...it's a discussion page, I'm afraid. You'll notice quite a few pages so far in which people make and sustain various points of view. That's the idea. I do not believe I've bullied anyone in this discussion and nor do I see what men have to do with it. If you disagree, report the post.

I don't know do people blame the other man in an affair the same way they do the other woman though

That’s really is because men cheat for what most would consider crap reasons ( younger, more obliging) judging by my divorced friends ( of which 90% have been husbands going off with a younger, fun model) and the MN Relationship board.
I actually don’t know any women that had an affair but I know 2 that left the family home, no other man involved.

I might be wrong but I think OP was referring to the lack of 'girl code', for want of a better phrase. If I fancied my best mate's husband, I would keep it to myself. Even if he came on to me, I would reject his advances based on the fact he was my best mate's other half. Yes, I think he is a complete shit too, obviously! I think that's the angle OP was coming from.

I'm actually very much a woman's woman, but I dislike the idea of "girl code". You shouldn't shag married people because it's dishonourable; there's no need to gender it, and I don't like paradigms that hold women to higher moral standards than men. It also then opens us up to "ooh, so bitchy and competitive" accusations for doing things that aren't considered a gender failing when men do them.

Misogyny comes in many forms, and holding women to higher standards so that they have further to fall and harsher blame and punishments to take when doing the same thing as a man is definitely one of its common manifestations.

And isn’t it funny that ‘boy code’ does not appear to be a thing?

So apart from the probing you mentioned and posting about the banshee of the OW, what else have you done to support your friend, OP? Especially since your post seems all about sisterhood.

I’m with you op both man and women are awful but the woman has also left family AND betrayed best friend. Not only that moved in next door. I would have thought exactly the same as you. Yes we All get the other posters comments about Falling in love blah bah but I couldn’t live with myself by doing that so openly next door. It’s cruel. I could not do that to my best friend and husband/wife.

@LaurieMarlow

And isn’t it funny that ‘boy code’ does not appear to be a thing?

Exactly. Another reason why I don't like it.

Someone said on here once that men expect other men to want to shag their wives but women expect other women not to want to shag their husbands. I can't remember the context of the comment but it stayed with me. I do think there's some truth to it, but I don't really know why.

It does always seem to come down to double standards and an expectation that women shouldn't have sexual urges like men, though. Not that that makes it ok to shag married people, of course it's not. But just as I said before...when a man plays away, we might disapprove and maybe even condemn him for it, but nobody ever wonders what he could have enjoyed about it. It seems obvious. Yet with women, there's so often this genuinely mystified question of "but why, how could she?" Usually coupled with "doesn't she feel cheap, knowing she's not his priority" and all sorts of other sexual obstacles that we just don't imagine with men who do the same.

@resskiestonight - Yes we All get the other posters comments about Falling in love blah bah

What comments? I haven't seen any comments about falling in love. Plenty about the unreasonableness of blaming the ow for the man's cheating rather than blaming him.

Maybe I missed them.