Why would this woman split up two families?

[Ihavetochangemyname]

I've got a bit of a weird AIBU and probably wouldn't dream of airing this in real life but think it's one that the MNetters would be helpful with.

I appreciate its a first world problem and if it bothers me so much don't engage with social media, etc, etc. But I have read it and it's bothered me so much this weekend I can't stop thinking of it. Here it is.

A couple of years ago I met a nice lady socially, via Slimming World. We hit it off. I didn't see her outside of SW, but always sat next to her and chatted. I left SW about a year ago and desperately want to go back when it reopens for group. We were friends on Facebook and I commented on her photos, the usual. She seemed very happily married, two lovely kids.

Anyway, she's not an oversharer on FB, but I noticed she'd put sad emojis up which she doesn't usually do. After a bit of probing around it appears her husband has left her for her best friend and next door neighbour!! He's moved in next door with the neighbour and her son, splitting up two families.

I'm mortified, it's none of my business, really isn't but I'm so sad I can't stop thinking of her. I'm appalled that a woman can do this to another? Am I just totally naive?

Maybe the OP means the woman should have more consideration, as a fellow member of the female social minority, that it will make the abandoned wife's life harder.

But then perhaps that is actually a reason why she is less to blame than the man, as perhaps her life was hard for reasons related to being female already, and that contributed to the situation.

I get you, yes the husband is the one who is married but what sort of woman would get with her friends husband? Lowest of the low imo

@rosiejaune - But then perhaps that is actually a reason why she is less to blame than the man, as perhaps her life was hard for reasons related to being female already, and that contributed to the situation.

Regardless of her circumstances, she is not to blame for the man's behaviour.

She is, however, responsible for her own behaviour, which is, as far as I'm concerned (assuming the op's reporting is accurate), pretty reprehensible.

I don't disagree. But if a woman is e.g. in an abusive relationship and unable to work due to caring commitments, you can see how they might turn to someone else and come to rely on them instead of their partner.

I'm not saying that is the situation here (neither we nor the OP know all the details of this woman's life, nor even will her friend), but there are genuine reasons that women might find relationships harder than men, and therefore it is more understandable that they might look elsewhere, even if that is still wrong.

I do think women should have a girls code of sorts, not because it’s some wet Californian thinking but because generally women are doing relationships better than men. We set the standard ,
We compromise, we act nice, we are kind. Why are these lesser qualities? These are the things that make lifetime marriages last if a man has them.
Men running off with 20 year younger women is cliched but so true. Stop indulging them.

Why are these lesser qualities?

They’re not lesser qualities.

Why do we expect them to a much higher degree from women? Maybe if we expected more from men, they’d start to live up to those expectations.

We compromise, we act nice, we are kind. Why are these lesser qualities?

Because society is still teaching girls and women that being nice = not being assertive. And girl code is part of that conditioning by making women responsible and men less culpable.

Being nice is actually a good thing. It’s the patriarchy that deemed it wrong. You can absolutely be nice and be assertive. Teachers do it day in and out.

You want a relationship with someone married. Wait until they’re single. Not difficult,

‘You want a new relationship when married. Wait until you’re single. Not difficult,’

Fixed it for you, Leflic.

Poor woman. Husband's cheated, she's lost her best friend and now they're shagging under her nose. Despicable!

Keep an eye on your friend..

'I do think women should have a girls code of sorts, not because it’s some wet Californian thinking but because generally women are doing relationships better than men. We set the standard'

Why?

What I see in relationships is women doing the heavy lifting to a totally disproportionate extent.

I think saying fuck this shit is something women need to say more (but often can't or won't due to a variety of reasons mainly linked to sexism/ biology).

Loads of men have a pretty cushy time and society says, well, you know men!

Roll on a society that is not built around the average bloke, and let's see.

I believe I have seen that single women are happier than married women. Married men are happier than single men.

After divorce women get on better than men.

Loads of men are lost without a 'woman to look after them'.

In Japan, a v patriarchal society. Women are saying no. I don't want to marry. Loads of articles about the plight of the poor men.

In China, one child policy plus misogyny lead to a shortage of women. Cue what are the men going to do articles again. And in the more remote areas they took to kidnapping 'brides'.

The set up seems to be that men are raised and grow up kind of expecting to be looked after. When women get the choice many more of us stay single.

We don't need a girl code. Unless it's, let's stop putting up with shit from men.

Maybe men need a code to say, grow up.

(Namalt obv).

Oh I agree we should have a "girl's code" but that still does not trump marital vows.

Why do we need a 'girls code'?

Women are people with a range of personalities and drivers.

Tell you what a really awesome 'girls code' would be working for girls and women around the world who are having a terrible time. Forced marriage, fgm, access to abortion, basic rights etc.

Would you get on board with that?

I can recommended some charities who don't seem to be involved in the recent scandals

@rosiejaune

Maybe the OP means the woman should have more consideration, as a fellow member of the female social minority, that it will make the abandoned wife's life harder.

But then perhaps that is actually a reason why she is less to blame than the man, as perhaps her life was hard for reasons related to being female already, and that contributed to the situation.

give over. The woe is me attitude doesn't work either. Everyone's life is or can be hard. It doesn't excuse shitty behaviour.

Everything @ShinyFootball said 👏👏👏

your aggressive response to me and others to ‘be right’ is the most unsisterly and dogmatic views. I respected everyone’s opinion

TBh @Socialdistancegintonic the more you post the more internalised misogyny you display. It is depressing that the view still holds that women who express views robustly, clearly and unapologetically are called angry or aggressive. Men are not called this for speaking in a similar way. This is well evidenced.

I have not found @ShebaShimmyShake to be how you describe her. I have found her to be an extremely effective communicator who gets to the heart of the matter in a clear way.

I do find your use of language 'bullying', 'slamed' 'angry' 'aggressive' to be surprisingly provocative and insulting for someone who is claiming another poster has not been 'nice' enough in how they express themself. (which is what your post boils down to).

Being nice is actually a good thing

I used to think this. I've moderated my view somewhat. I've just seen that being 'nice' and 'kind' is something that is expected of women and girls more than men/boys and means that women put others (men) ahead of themselves. There has been research showing that from a very young age, girls are much more likely than boys to say they should put others above themselves. And just anecdotally, though I am sure if someone researched this the evidence would be consistent with the anecdote, women are much more likely, for example, to give up where they want to live to live where the man wants to. I know lots of women who have moved to live in the country the husband wanted to, or for the job the husband wanted (even if they have their own careers). They often talk about their loss with sadness. But they have been taught to be 'nice' and 'kind' whereas men just feel comfortable asserting what they want. So men get what they want, without feeling guilt about it.

And don't get me started on those bloody facebook memes ' tell your daughter that she may not have the prettiest face but she kind have the kindest heart' and everyone responding with 'heart' emojis. yeah, teaching girls that their goal is to be kind (with the implicit message that that is some kind of consolation prize for not being pretty enough).

Being 'kind'. being 'nice', effects women's and girls life's negatively, and often profoundly negatively, in ways that is doesn't men's.

In fact we can see from this post what happens when a woman fails to be 'nice' and 'kind' , breaks that niceness 'girl code', she gets slated. The man doesn't though, Because, as others have explicitly said here, he was never expected to be nice in the first place.

Blatant misogyny.

I have not found@ShebaShimmyShaketo be how you describe her. I have found her to be an extremely effective communicator who gets to the heart of the matter in a clear way.

Oh my, thank you.

You want a relationship with someone married. Wait until they’re single. Not difficult,

This is depressing. The only person responsible for their actions is the person themselves.

Women are not responsible for ensuring men don't stray. And yes, I know you didn't specify sex, but given the conversation thus far, it's pretty obvious that you are referring to women.

I don't know. You go along, thinking there has been progress for women and then you see the sheer misogyny exhibited by women and you realise we haven't a hope. It's not just men keeping women in their place, women are doing it to themselves too.

Although the one bright light is that there are a number of women on here who get it and are presumably teaching their daughters and sons what equality actually means.

In response to Ochon, 9.26, post above. I've often observed that some of the worst enemies of women's emancipation have been other women. A century ago, female anti-suffragism was a big thing. Why on earth any rational, thinking human being could be prompted to oppose their own right to autonomous citizenship is something I simply can't compute. It's a position that flies in the face of logic altogether.

Men don't see other men as affronting them personally through their chosen family set-up or division of domestic versus commercial labour. There are no endless debates online about baby feeding methods, SAHF versus WOHF, playground politics between warring dads, etc. If it happens, it's rare. And then there's the women who choose to stand outside established convention. I've witnessed forcible condemnation on these very boards of women who retain their own identity on marriage and forcibly reject the title 'Mrs'. Issues like brides being walked down aisles and handed from father to husband like chattels provoke real ire when the origins of such 'traditions' are discussed. I, for one, have particular in-laws - all of them female - who persist in addressing me as Mrs Hisname. The implied message of this is clear. Women are expected to subjugate ourselves to male wants, needs and authorities. And those of us who don't, or won't, or have zero interest in Wife Work, can immediately expect that someone will try to put us back in our boxes. And those attempts will overwhelmingly emanate from other women.

Anyone in doubt of that reality only needs to back-read this thread.

FGS..l have seen many a thread on here absolutely crucifying the other woman but now you ask an innocent question, all of a sudden you are a misogynist with issues?! Crazy!! Yes the man is as much to blame but what l would say Op is that your friend may only put snapshots on of her happy life, the marriage could have been on the rocks for ages. Horrible situation for the lady but l think life is too short to be in the wrong relationship although there are much better ways of going about it.

How is the man ‘as much’ to blame?

Surely he is far, far more to blame as he made public promises to commit and honour. It’s his family that’s being destroyed.

Posted is staggered that a woman could do this to her friend. Women can be vile to each other. Yes obviously the man is to blame too but quite shocking how vile women can be to each other. The other woman clearly has internalised misogyny to do this to another woman.

Poster not posted. Grrr

Why on earth any rational, thinking human being could be prompted to oppose their own right to autonomous citizenship is something I simply can't compute.

Well, for the same reason women do it now. There is a powerful social narrative about women, especially "feminists", being ugly, bitter, dried-up, man-hating harpies who will be miserable forever. It was even stronger back in the time of the suffragettes; have you not seen that "at 15 a little coquette, at 30 still not married yet, at 55 a suffragette" poster that was around at the time, showing suffragettes as ugly, shrieking old harridans who couldn't get a man? Of course women don't want to be perceived that way, so they internalise the misogyny and make a point of distancing themselves from feminism and whatever else the narrative attacks, like voting or holding men responsible for their own marriages. They are then rewarded and the narrative reinforced by being told that they're "not like other women".

It's been happening for jillions of years and still happens now because it works very well.