AIBU to ignore parents dietary wishes for their che

[Calmondeck]

(For background, I’m in a country where things have reopened)

I am currently spending a lot of time with my brother’s 2 DC, giving him and his wife a few hours break from the kids each day (they were going batty in lockdown). The DC are on extremely strict diets for ethical/environmental reasons - v limited grain/carbs, no milk, no sugar, 1 small piece a fruit per day. We were recently at the park where some other parents expressed surprise at the small frame of one of the DC.

This DC (3yrs) is always asking me for food when we are alone together. We planned to have a picnic in the park (prepared/approved snacks from home) and were joined by a friend who brought homemade banana bread and butter. Before I could stop DC, she reached for the butter and popped the entire thing in her mouth. I was silently laughing to myself, but decided not to react to DC.

DC asks me for milk for her doll (which I put into a little toy bottle and she subsequently drinks herself / pretends to feed it to the doll if within eyesight of the parents), we also sometimes sneak in a natural yogurt on our trips together and grain crackers.

I am not a parent, but can imagine feeling frustrated if someone I trusted my children’s care to was defying my groundrules. At the same time, this child is underweight, and when I enquired with my brother about whether she eats all of her dinner (worried perhaps I was creating dinner time issues for them later at home) he said the DC always eats everything she is given. AIBU to continue this little eating charade when DC is in my care?

Actually the nspcc is a good shout. Report anonymously. Then feign innocence if it’s mentioned and outrage on their behalf. And keep looking after her and feeding the little girl properly.

They're starving their child, this is awful. One small piece of fruit a day, for a growing child? What do they eat?

Not only would I ignore the parents' wishes, I would actually report to SS. Children need fuel to grow and be healthy, and this will affect their health (mental and physical) in later life.

This kind of diet is totally unsuitable for children, who need a range of foods and easy to assimilate carbohydrates. I think it is a mental health issue, to control a child’s food to this extreme degree unless there are medical reasons of course.
I have some experience of a child being controlled through food like this, and the child was underweight and hungry all the time, it was very upsetting, and thankfully has now been resolved.

Your brother and his wife, can they not tell their children are thin and hungry ? This could affect the children’s growth, it is a serious issue.

This is neglect. Children don't need to be on a paleo diet ffs.

I agree with a PP that this will cause major lifelong issues around food.

Then feign innocence if it’s mentioned and outrage on their behalf.

Don't do this. Don't feign outrage and reinforce their abuse. Explain that the reporter may have had a point and set out the facts about the nutrients children need to grow.

Playing devil's advocate; kids who are "allowed" to eat everything can be super skinny too so you can't be sure that's the issue with the weight and size.

Also children who don't have cow's milk will naturally be smaller. Cow's milk is designed to help turn calves into massive cows after all.

Presumably the limit on fruit is about sugar, it's not good for teeth to snack a lot on fruit.

My 4 year old will ask to eat and cry about being hungry if he sees anyone else eating. Even if he's just had a three course adult sized meal. So I wouldn't say that's always because a child is being underfed.

And 3 year olds don't always understand what they are eating so you can't claim that the child eating the butter is some kind of sign that she's desperately lacking in dairy. Whole civilisations don't eat dairy.

On the other hand their diet does sound very restrictive and I understand your concern. Children need a lot of fat and protein and I would wonder if they aren't getting as much as would be optimal. Vegan recipe books and meat "alternatives" often seem to give sod all regard to nutrition - so many are heavily veg based.

However it is entirely possible for you to "feed up" this child without breaking their "rules". Giving dairy to a child who isn't used to it might cause tummy issues, and they don't NEED crackers or dairy yoghurt (assuming they are fortifying with calcium and other nutrients somehow).

You could give e.g. peanut butter, coconut based yoghurts, hummus, avocado etc etc. That would require zero cooking on your part as well.

I think that's awful. Shes under weight and always hungry?! I would actually weight and measure her height to check her bmi. If she is underweight I would speak to social care team for advice. Yes I would continue to feed her extra food.

Could you get round it by feeding her up on foods she is allowed (although it's a little hard to imagine what these could be, if she's not allowed grains/carbs/sugar/milk or fruit)? So if she's allowed soya yoghurts, you could give her a big one rather than one small childsized one? That way if she does 'tell' on you, you've done nothing technically wrong?

Why no milk? Do they just drink water instead? Isn’t milk for healthy bones and teeth.
Their diy doesn’t sound right to me at all.

To a previous PP, there is calcium in lots of non dairy foods, tofu for example.

OP, do you know what's meals they do have?

It does sound very restrictive but they may not be underweight. Both my children are small, one eats loads and the other is very fussy. They are the same size still.

I would find an opportunity to have a gentle chat with your sibling because at the end of the day you should be following their wishes. If this comes out one or both of them might refuse you seeing them.

Who the hell are the 37% of voters who think it's ok to deny a child milk?!

Do the children have any food intolerances?

Do the parents follow these diets?

I would just feed them up on food they ARE allowed. You WILL be found out, and it WILL cause a row, and you brother will side with his wife.

Are you sure it is only environment/ ethical reasoning? If so,can you source ethical versions?

What DO they eat?

I think it's important that we hear what foods they are eating before they are branded deficient.

Regardless a restrictive diet can cause an abundance of problems, now and/or later on in life.

I think Nanbread might have a point about potentially causing tummy problems if the child isn't used to certain foods. So as she says try to stay within their basic rules, but give tons of it and look for vegan/paleo substitutes she could have.

I don’t think she is neglected, she’s just very small and very hungry

How the hell are you defining neglect to say this?

I think its totally ok to "deny" a child milk. Many, many children dont have milk beyond infancy. @ReceptacleForTheRespectable

X posted - just realised you said paleo, but from your OP I presumed it was vegan for ethical reasons and also low grain?

Paleo relies heavily on animal products usually, so I would be very concerned if they were trying to do a vegan paleo diet for their children. They will need meat, fish and eggs if not eating things like legumes etc.

Is she growing upwards ok? Does her skin look all right or is it dry and scaly? Is she bright and attentive? Do you think she seems healthy (bright eyes, energetic etc) apart from being hungry?

You need to talk to the child’s parents and ask if they can provide more food for when the dc are with you because it’s hard work finding food that they are allowed when you’re out, and tell them that you get constant requests for food.

You need to let the parents decide how to deal with this, it’s not your place to make these choices. If you don’t want to look after the children with these eating restrictions then don’t, but don’t make parental decisions without even trying to discuss it.

That diet sounds awful for small children. It's neglect and I'd be doing more than just sneaking them food if I was you.

Anyone who has seen a child on an extremely strict diet, hungry and thin, would know the difference between that and a normal hungry toddler enjoying some banana bread. There is a sort of desperation about it.
Limiting sweets and junk food is obviously not a problem, cutting out many different types of food and restricting food to this degree is definitely a problem.
Sometimes I think extremely strict diets are a cover for an eating disorder, then projected onto the whole family. I have seen this in a friend. Do you think this applies to one of the parents ?

I don’t think she is neglected, she’s just very small and very hungry. I guess you could describe the diet as Paleo.
Neglect is a failure to meet a child’s basic needs - an there are few needs more basic that the need for nutrition. A child should not be “very hungry”.

This is a safeguarding issue you need to highlight to the parents and if they do not respond then report it. Children need to eat a full and healthy diet

Do you think she seems healthy (bright eyes, energetic etc) apart from being hungry?

So it's ok for children to be routinely hungry? Children are growing. They need fuel. If they are hungry, then they should be eating unless there are concerns about weight (not the case here).

Being small/underweight and hungry means this child needs to eat. And needs to eat calorie, fat and protein rich foods which will nourish them.

Who the hell are the 37% of voters who think it's ok to deny a child milk?!

There are a billion (if not more) people incl children worldwide who don't drink cow's milk as a given. It's not essential.