To be worried about 5 year old's empathy?

[Devonmum2020]

DD is 5.5 and I'm being driven crazy by her complete lack of empathy.

She bites her younger brother constantly and when we do the "look what you have done, this hurt DS" all I get back is a blank "well he made me mad".

She attacked me badly on Tuesday and I showed her the marks. Her response " I was itchy"

I have been unwell all weekend, DS has been giving me blankets etc and understanding when I have said mummy can't do x because I'm poorly. DD is just kicking off over everything. When I explain that mummy really isn't feeling well there's literally nothing there. She absolutely does not care and it has been meltdown after meltdown.

I don't know how to get her to get it but I'm getting so frustrated :(

I know kids don't develop empathy until 6 or 7 but Aibu to think she should have more than she has? DS is a young 4 and he seems to be able to grasp it.

I think it is very clear you have no experience with children with ASC. iwilltaketwoplease

And as for your views on "punishment" words fail me.

@iwilltaketwoplease That might work with a neurotypical child but, from everything @Devonmum2020 has said so far, it's sounding like her daughter may be neuro diverse and you need a different tool kit for those children.

@LaurieFairyCake

You don't need to worry about empathy until 8.

They don't start to cognitively understand empathy until 6 or 7.

Under 6 they're just mirroring.

This is what I was taught whilst learning psychology. However, I’m convinced my daughter has been able to feel empathy from 3.

I put a kid’s mini film on for her and when I checked on her she had silent tears streaming down her face and when I asked her what was wrong she said “he’s lost his family.”

After that she cried at anything where the character was sad or lonely.

@Catmaiden which views ? If someone does something wrong they get punished, one child hurts another you punish them. If that's by taking things away , no sweets, or the naughty step it's a punishment for them.

@BeBraveAndBeKind From what I've read here the school don't think it's anything more which is concerning, do they not have a duty of care especially if the OPs daughter has 1-1 surely they should refer ?

@iwilltaketwoplease. Some schools just don't have the expertise to be able to pick these things up. It's worrying that they seem so unhelpful though. My son's infant school was pretty unhelpful in the first few years and I actually had a teacher tell me that there was nothing the matter with him, he was just antisocial. He subsequently was diagnosed with ASD and Dyspraxia. It wasn't until year 5 that there was a decent impetus to get things moving and the Teaching Advisory Service were instrumental in pulling everyone together for a complete picture of what was happening with him.

@BeBraveAndBeKind It does seem worrying. That must have been a tough road, I am glad you have reached a diagnosis now and I hope you've got the support that's needed.

I have a 3yo which I have my concerns about too, I have done for a long while now, nursery work closely with an organisation and they also work 1-1 with the children and do development checks every so often which is good. My son is speech delayed, smears poo, violent towards his brother , the list goes on but as nursery has been closed for months now I haven't had a meeting with the workers yet to see if they've picked up on anything. Seems it's a long way for any diagnosis.

It seems the GP is the best route to go down to get referred to a paediatrician or psychologist for an assessment OP, so do go back.

@iwilltaketwoplease sorry to hear your three year old is struggling. Sounds similar to how mine was at 3!

I think it's really hard to explain how mine just can not link the consequence because unless you live it it's really hard to put into words. She just absolutely can not relate the conscience she is receiving being related to the action. No matter how immediate or consistent, it's like she forgets she even did anything.

@Devonmum2020 I understand it must be very hard to deal with. My point is (I'm assuming she's verbal) she does something wrong , you tell her "you do not bite your brother because it hurts him" then she knows because you've told her does that make sense? But I see now it's more even if you do tell her ten minutes later she will bite again for example so even if you do tell her off she "doesn't care".

My 3yo is the same in that sense, no matter how much I tell him off he just doesn't listen and doesn't learn from his mistakes. Consequences mean nothing to him perhaps it's his age I don't know , I have a 7yo too but never had these challenges.

Your DD is 5 so I agree that she should "behave" by now and develop an understanding. My points when I first started positing were that the only thing I can do is be consistent in discipline in the hope that one day soon it clicks.

Good luck OP, I hope you can get some support for your family soon.