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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To tell you why 'live' teaching isn't the be all

207 replies

CrunchyCrumpet · 19/06/2020 20:52

Given the preference for 'live' teaching on MN I wanted to dispel some of the misconceptions widely held on this as its entirely possible we'll see a mixture of in-school and remote learning going forwards.

Research shows us that there is no significant difference in learning outcomes between remote live lessons (with the teacher facilitating learning online) and other methods of remote learning (for instance narrated powerpoints, use of videos and/or instruction sheets). Interestingly it would seem that a recording showing the teachers face actually detracts from the learning.

What matters most is the quality of that teaching and whether it builds on the prior knowledge of the students and how that knowledge is assessed. All students are unique and need different learning methods to optimise their learning, in a class of 33 students the ideal is to get a mix of approaches to remote learning (worth noting here that school policy will influence that 'mix'). One of the huge positives of remote learning is the emphasis it can place on the development of independent learning skills.

Access to technology in of itself is a huge barrier to learning during these times, it is a shame that the free laptops promised were restricted to incredibly narrow criteria.

We can't replicate the classroom experience, however we can take what we know works and adapt it for remote learning. Something that takes a lot of work and a lot of trial and error with the tech.

Sorry that is so long! There are of course many other factors that interplay with the different approaches taken, I've focused on the learning here alone. Teachers know their students and will select the best approach available to them within the boundaries of school policy. As many PPs have said, if you have questions or problems with an approach speak to your school.

RemoteLearningRapidEvidenceAssessment.pdf EEF

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Carlotacoffee · 19/06/2020 20:57

Dd actually really enjoyed her live lessons - if the other kids actually stopped butting in and talking over the teacher. Stuff like ‘it’s my birthday tomorrow’ .. year 2

We ended up sacking them off as it was a palava!

CrunchyCrumpet · 19/06/2020 21:03

@Carlotacoffee liberal use of the mute all button sometimes needed Grin

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hettie · 19/06/2020 21:04

I don't doubt that that this is true (re the evidence base). But asking teachers to think about remote learning and how to deliver it is a good idea i think. Asking why nothing interactive or recorded or live is bound to be something parents ask.
You're not unreasonable to tell us the evidence base but then I funny think users of mumsnet are unreasonable to ask what more could be done. Dc1's secondary has sent him worksheets or tasks on PowerPoint with info then questions .....read and answer the questions. The only exception is Maths where they use mymaths which they had previously.. I don't care about 'live lessons' but some direction or help or feedback would be nice. I lecture and deliver training. Since lockdown I've found this easier to do 'live' than prerecorded, but that's just my preference, if people ask questions as we go I find it easier than trying to make sure I've covered every possible query in the materials I'm handing out...

cptartapp · 19/06/2020 21:06

My SLT friend has said, off the record, that some teachers are taking the approach that's easiest, and not necessarily the best. This includes avoiding live teaching at all costs because the unions have said they don't have to. And they have their own DC to see to.
As the parent of a bright year 10 student who has become increasingly frustrated with worksheets, revision, reading and note making, and 'tidying your file' one week, the mental lift and morale boost it gives him when two of his nine teachers teach via zoom is great to see. Not so much about how much is 'learnt', but that theyre worthy of some effort for personal contact and engagement.

CrunchyCrumpet · 19/06/2020 21:16

@hettie wholeheartedly agree, the way in which assessment and feedback takes place is key to making progress. This is an area where we need to be reflective and improve on for sure, there is plenty of opportunities for CPD here!

@cptartapp I've no doubt that is the case, you will get that outlook in any industry sadly. As I said earlier I was describing the learning only in terms of outcomes, the interaction with peers has huge benefits. Something else that has been found is that tasks set remotely so peers work together is great for both learning outcomes and student interaction/morale. Remote peer group work would take multiple times to cultivate the desired approach by the students but would be great for Y10/11.

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CrunchyCrumpet · 19/06/2020 21:19

I've posted mainly as its frustrating to see people question why students can't follow the same timetable as normal just replacing classroom lessons with 'live' remote lessons.

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SmileEachDay · 19/06/2020 21:20

My narrated PowerPoints are way better than they’d be live. I think really carefully and precisely about how to explain things for the group it’s for.

If I was live, there’s absolutely no way I’d be able to do that.

CrunchyCrumpet · 19/06/2020 21:24

@SmileEachDay

My narrated PowerPoints are way better than they’d be live. I think really carefully and precisely about how to explain things for the group it’s for.

If I was live, there’s absolutely no way I’d be able to do that.

So true! The ability to redo a recording is brilliant if you weren't happy with how you explained it first, downside is the amount of time that then takes. Another good way to demonstrate how busy teachers have been.
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BlessYourCottonSocks · 19/06/2020 21:26

I'm copying and pasting part of my reply on another thread about this in case it's helpful. I know some parents think 'live lessons' would be great, but so many kids can't do this at a particular time. They aren't just able to log in for their 9 o'clock History lesson.

^The kids I teach, many of them don't have wi-fi at home. Many speak English as a second language. Many are looking after younger siblings whilst parents work, I suspect. Many of them (teens) are probably working themselves, to be honest. Stacking shelves in corner shops run by people who speak the same language as them and deal with the poorest people in our society. Or looking after neighbours toddlers all day to earn a bit of pocket money whilst neighbours work.

Many of them are struggling with their mental health. Many of them have lost all motivation to work. Many of them I am really worried about. Not everybody lives in the 'Mumsnet' world where parents are really indignant about the lack of education their children have had.^

I understand some of my Y10s (eg) would love a live lesson. But probably more than half of them wouldn't be able to access it at that time - and so they've missed out. It's frustrating as a teacher to not be able to do the best for students. But as others have said - live lessons are not the be all and end all.

SmileEachDay · 19/06/2020 21:27

Yep. Takes flipping ages!

It’s like being an NQT again, when you had to write those flipping pointlessly detailed lesson plans and every lesson took about eleventy hundred hours to plan and prepare 😂😂

BogRollBOGOF · 19/06/2020 21:29

My DCs (y2 & y4) don't cope with Zoom. The y4 has ASD anyway so is particular about interactions.

The y2 teacher has checked in with a quiz/ bingo type activity and I have to literally carry DS2 to the computer. In some ways it reinforces what he's missing rather than filling the gap. He gets into it towards the end, but I can't see it being an effective learning tool for him. He needs real company, there just isn't an adequate substitute.

We do zoom for a youth group. My DCs won't engage with it for theirs. On my group, it easily gets dominated by a couple of characters. While mute all is highly useful, it is even harder to get a two-way interaction from the quieter members.

Clutterbugsmum · 19/06/2020 21:29

The quality of teaching shouldn't change between the classroom and teachers giving lesson's online.

If other countries have been able to teach via 'Zoom' lessons to keep school going as normal as possible then maybe DFE and teachers need to do the same.

tilder · 19/06/2020 21:29

Hi @CrunchyCrumpet. Your weblink came up 'forbidden to access'. Is there another way to view, or report name?

I don't see normal school being replicated on line. Equally, I struggle to see normal school returning for a while, despite the announcements today (I hope I'm wrong).

If we aren't back in the classroom soon, I really hope technology can step up. Our kids need more than they are getting.

underneaththeash · 19/06/2020 21:30

Unfortunately, I've seen the difference between my 2 privately educated children's zoom/teams live lessons and my older child's state provision.
His is lacking in so many ways - we're just paying for tutors to try and bridge some of the gaps. One teacher is okay, but the other's are useless and don't seem to have played back any recorded provision or made sure that the worksheets actually matched the websites that they were recommending.
Luckily, I'm quite well educated in the subjects he's doing....
I

Aesopfable · 19/06/2020 21:31

I have no doubt your study results were fair BUT they were probably far more controlled than what is currently happening. Live lessons at least require the teacher to engage with what they are teaching. Too often the alternative is random twinkl worksheets or two minute videos of Bitesize or youtube.

BlessYourCottonSocks · 19/06/2020 21:32

@Clutterbugsmum

The quality of teaching shouldn't change between the classroom and teachers giving lesson's online.

If other countries have been able to teach via 'Zoom' lessons to keep school going as normal as possible then maybe DFE and teachers need to do the same.

Did you even bother read my post about what life is like for many of my pupils?

Maybe you live in a different world to them.

CrunchyCrumpet · 19/06/2020 21:33

@BlessYourCottonSocks nicely put MN is certainly a bubble, scarily so at times. Its so hard, you want to be able to help every single student to the same degree.

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SmileEachDay · 19/06/2020 21:33

The quality of teaching shouldn't change between the classroom and teachers giving lesson's online

It is an entirely different experience.

A narrated PP of the lesson is far, far better.

CrunchyCrumpet · 19/06/2020 21:37

Sorry about the link, I'll paste it again hopefully works this time.

educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/public/files/Publications/Covid-19_Resources/Remote_learning_evidence_review/Remote_Learning_Rapid_Evidence_Assessment.pdf

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slothbucket · 19/06/2020 21:38

I’m teaching full time in school so not sure how I’m supposed to do that and simultaneously deliver live lessons to children who can’t even watch a 2 min video in the classroom without getting distracted.

Live lessons may have their place in secondary, I don’t know, but in much of primary its much worse provision than other methods and pointless. Also most families can’t attend or don’t have laptops.

CallmeAngelina · 19/06/2020 21:42

My friend's son said most of his class are actually on their phones playing games out of sight of the camera during the live lessons he's had.

CrunchyCrumpet · 19/06/2020 21:44

@BogRollBOGOF how is your DS with remote learning that doesn't involve Zoom? For instance, narrated powerpoint or set tasks?

@Clutterbugsmum in a classroom environment it takes a group about 6 minutes to say 600 words. It takes about an hour to cover the same electronically. I said the quality of the teaching is imperative, its impossible to cover the same quantity of material remotely.

@Aesopfable As I said in the original post, many of the issues people are experiencing should be addressed to the school directly. There's nothing wrong with using Twinkl or Tes resources, they can be excellent, relevant ways to embed learning. However, they need to be relevant to the learning, if someone has made a mistake and attached the wrong sheet tell them! They'd probably be mortified Grin

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endlessginandtonic · 19/06/2020 21:52

I completely see as a social worker why live lessons are a non starter for many dc.

But for dc like mine in much more fortunate circumstances the wholesale transfer from classroom to live zoom was pretty effective and has worked well.

It isn't as good as classrooms and one dc has found it easier than the other but it is more of a classroom feel than preset learning.

Wishforsnow · 19/06/2020 21:57

Live lessons have worked for years for people gaining professional qualifications. Yes some children may get distracted but at least you can see who is engaged rather than just PP. My Dd has had excellent online lessons and has learned so much. I don't understand the negativity in these lessons. If she was just shown PowerPoints I think she would disengage

Wishforsnow · 19/06/2020 21:58

I should add all her teachers are doing an amazing job. Sadly for some children some teachers are not.

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