To tell you why 'live' teaching isn't the be all

[CrunchyCrumpet]

Given the preference for 'live' teaching on MN I wanted to dispel some of the misconceptions widely held on this as its entirely possible we'll see a mixture of in-school and remote learning going forwards.

Research shows us that there is no significant difference in learning outcomes between remote live lessons (with the teacher facilitating learning online) and other methods of remote learning (for instance narrated powerpoints, use of videos and/or instruction sheets). Interestingly it would seem that a recording showing the teachers face actually detracts from the learning.

What matters most is the quality of that teaching and whether it builds on the prior knowledge of the students and how that knowledge is assessed. All students are unique and need different learning methods to optimise their learning, in a class of 33 students the ideal is to get a mix of approaches to remote learning (worth noting here that school policy will influence that 'mix'). One of the huge positives of remote learning is the emphasis it can place on the development of independent learning skills.

Access to technology in of itself is a huge barrier to learning during these times, it is a shame that the free laptops promised were restricted to incredibly narrow criteria.

We can't replicate the classroom experience, however we can take what we know works and adapt it for remote learning. Something that takes a lot of work and a lot of trial and error with the tech.

Sorry that is so long! There are of course many other factors that interplay with the different approaches taken, I've focused on the learning here alone. Teachers know their students and will select the best approach available to them within the boundaries of school policy. As many PPs have said, if you have questions or problems with an approach speak to your school.

RemoteLearningRapidEvidenceAssessment.pdf EEF

We tried live lessons. It took me about two hours to prepare it, it lasted 50 minutes, and four kids watched it (out of 105).

We tried it four times with similar results, despite emails and texts to tell pupils and parents when they were happening.

And I hated doing it. I really, really hated it. I hated the thought that I could be recorded, that parents might be critical, that I looked fat, that it was out in the world forever, that my ex (now a parent at my school) might have a laugh at it. I know it sounds pathetic but it really did cause me a lot of anxiety. I'd have kept it up if I thought that the kids were benefitting substantially but I really don't think they were. It felt at the time that it was more about showing parents that we weren't sat on our arses at home.

Mine have found live lessons the most useful part of their online education. Having a timetable of lessons has also helped to motivate them to be up and ready for school, and to have a definite end of the day. When they were struggling with lessons it helped to have live one-to-one sessions with teachers.

However we are in a US state school, and our students were all already supplied with a laptop and (if they didn't have it) free wifi.

Also, they're secondary school age.

I think teachers are underestimating the value their interactions add if they think prerecorded links etc are the same.
My son is bright and motivated and has said that the lessons from his online school are 1000 better than his school were providing. He can do quizzes, ask questions, go into small group sessions to work with classmates. It is possible to replicate all the good things that being in a classroom provides.

I think a balance is probably best however. I wouldn't want mine on screens all day but equally I think just worksheets and prerecorded stuff means it is hard for Children to stay motivated.

@CrunchyCrumpet thank you for the link. Really interesting. Good to see the upfront stuff on limitations and data gaps. It's definitely skewed towards older age groups, I guess because that's where remote learning was focused pre covid.

Interaction seems to be really important. With staff and peers. More than one way to do it.

I would hope my kids schools provide more interaction by September. On the assumption they're not back. I will ask what their plans are. I expect to get something along the lines of 'adaptable'! But am hoping for more, 6 months in.

When teachers are 'live' in the classroom, the value is in being able to see the children, gauge their attention and understanding from their behaviour. You know which children to focus on and whether you are pitching it right/too slow/too fast.

Online lessons don't let you do that effectively, and it's harder to judge when you need to allow an interruption and when you can keep talking over a child.

Online, I can't imagine getting through much content with interruptions and an inability to see how the children were responding.

My DS is finding some subjects easier at home without interruptions from disruptive kids.

@Wishforsnow great to see that you've had a positive experience with teachers tailoring the delivery to their students. As PPs have said many children simply cannot access live lessons in the first place.

@rawlikesushi you've raised some really good points there. The unions and media often quote safeguarding for children and the teachers but we forget that classroom teachers fundamentally did not sign up for distance learning and there is a whole host of issues we've yet to uncover. I hope the revised learning method is one everyone at your school is comfortable with.

@HoldMyLobster and @NeverTwerkNaked you've both perfectly illustrated why its essential that there is a mix in the remote learning that is offered. Also, I wish every student could be provided with a laptop as it would help hugely with us all being back in the classroom.

It's the quality and quantity that matters - the problem is that most schools aren't even providing 3 hours worth of teaching in any format whereas private schools here are teaching 6 hours per day and work is marked

The other thing I'd add is that the live lessons have helped in non-educational ways - providing a way for the students to stay in touch with each other in a way that is vaguely like going to school. School is about so much more than just learning outcomes.

Many of the lessons that my kids attended didn't really attempt to teach them much, but were a chance to bring them together and try out things like quizzes, games, singing, all sorts of stupid things.

I really appreciate that the teachers put the time and energy into everything they did in what has been a horribly difficult time.

And it really did bring home how technology can be a game-changer in education.

The comparisons with private schools is tedious.

That's because they get £15000pa (or whatever the fees are) compared to about £5k pa in the state sector, so they're already better resources.

Their teachers are keen to do live lessons because if they can't collect the fees, they're out of a job.

Their students are academically able, are supported by motivated parents, and have access to the internet and tech at home.

How many of their teachers are delivering food, supporting vulnerable and profoundly SEN children?

Why private and state schools comparisons are odious:

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/19/its-a-basic-equality-issue-home-learning-gap-between-state-and-private-schools

"The other thing I'd add is that the live lessons have helped in non-educational ways."

I agree with this. We set up a way for each class to communicate with each other and their teacher 24/7. It isn't as well-used as it was because students have discovered their own ways to communicate with each other, but it was invaluable early on, and allowed us to put children in touch with each other. I had a new child start during the week before lockdown so she didn't know anybody - I think it was particularly useful and important then. I still post every day, reply to every message, and we do a big group video call every week.

It's hard now I'm back in school full time as there's hours of stuff to catch up with when I get home, but I don't mind doing it because it feels valuable.

I think teachers are underestimating the value their interactions add if they think prerecorded links etc are the same.

I agree. I think ds2 (8) and even dd (11) would cry with relief and joy if they saw their teacher. They crave interaction at the moment.

Ds2 did Skype art today with 4 friends. He was buzzing for hours afterwards.

I actually think that our experience of online lessons has proved that we really do need teachers. And ideally we need students to be back in schools.

Whenever I join these threads I'm left with the realisation of how important teachers and schools are.

My dc have attended state and private schools, they aren't especially academically able and neither are their peers.

Live online teaching works well compared to the offerings that my UK state schools dependent family have had.
It is non teaching issues that means it isn't offered widely in state schools.

However I completely agree it is poor substitute for schools and I cannot wait for my dc to be able to restart normal school.

Although one dc has actually done better academically with online teaching I don't think it is overall a positive thing.
( The other has done worse to provide balance)

Same the well-being / feeling connected to school community element of live lessons and tutor time has been really worthwhile. More than my kids realise. Been alot fun and non academic stuff. A lot banter. After lessons kids will often do online gaming and has meant their friendships haven’t fizzled out the way they might if they hadn’t been ‘seeing’ each other online. Has meant they have had stuff to talk about with each other plus chance to say proper goodbyes to those not returning next year. I hate to think where my kids mental health would be if they hadn’t had this online contact with their friends and teachers.

Just a word re knitting out kids with laptops, wifi etc...it is also the staff who lack this! We were very lucky as a small school to be able to take a laptop home each. If that hadn't happened the only device I would have had available would have been my phone! As it is,my broadband is woeful and I often lose connection during meetings etc.

The issue of kitting students out with laptops really is a political one. It's a decision that governments can choose to take and is one they will have to fight to defend, should they choose it.

My US state is on the lower end of the list on the poverty scale. Giving every middle/high school student a laptop was part of the effort to equal out opportunities back in 2002.

The governor we had before the current one was a mini-Trump, who could not see the value in the program and tried to bring it to an end. Thank goodness he failed.

The program costs $172 per student and/or teacher per year.

I teach in FE, so adult learners and a very different setup. I used Teams for my classes. It took a bit of setting up in terms of inviting everyone to the various classes, and I didn’t initially realise that some jokers could throw others out of the “room”, but it worked well after teething problems. We would do a bit of chit-chat while everyone came along, then I would flip the screen so the students saw the PowerPoint, and I spoke through it. The students switched their microphones off (again, this was a bit of a learning curve!) then at the end we had the whole group for questions. I also set up a whole class “chat” which worked like a WhatsApp group, so people could chat in there, ask questions, or message me privately if need be. They knew I would be in there at set times - when we usually had timetabled classes - and there were certain days where I asked them all to gather there to set out tasks for the week, plus a (slightly daft) quiz to start with.

I did one-to-one meetings fortnightly, alternating with half the register each week, which again, were a pain to set up, but I think the students really valued them. Even if we spent 15 minutes talking about missing Starbucks and the hairdresser, it just gave them another person to talk to. We use a VLE as standard, so I could upload presentations and other notes exactly as I would in the classroom, for anyone who didn’t attend or needed to refer back to them.

This only worked because we run paperless classes anyway, so every student must have a laptop when they start college. If they don’t they can borrow one at the beginning of their course, or buy one from the college, paying in interest-free instalments. Friends who teach in schools have a very different situation in terms of students not having devices, or WiFi. It also helped that relationships were well-established. I think we will be doing remote teaching again after summer, and I imagine it will be hard with new students (if any come).

"Just a word re knitting out kids with laptops, wifi etc...it is also the staff who lack this!"

Yes I have had to do everything at home from my phone. My PC packed up in January and I can't afford to replace it.

My school had enough laptops for SLT but no one else.

My SLT friend has said, off the record, that some teachers are taking the approach that's easiest, and not necessarily the best.

I just need to point this out that SLT often aren't the best judges of what goes on in a classroom. I am sure there are many excellent SLTs, but in my current school (and all the previous, bar one) they don't have a clue of what is going on in the average classroom (fancy private one as well).

Also teaching as a profession gets far more complaints than complements. And the complaints tend to go the leadership and complements to the teacher, who rarely bounds up to SLT saying little Johnie called me fab today.

That would be true - IF we wouldn’t be in the middle of a pandemic and kids are starved for social contact. the ability to discuss with teachers and other kids is what motivates them - its their only social interaction outside the family.
It slso depends on age group. i would expect a secondary kid to get on with it, but younger years? can’t open the document, but I can’t see year 1 and 2 patiently watching 2 hours teacher videos per day, whereas they engaged very happily with 3.5 hours zoom per day.

I haven’t read the whole thread but all I know is that when my dcs’ school was offering the live and in real time timetabled approach (up until half term), my dd (Year 9) was really engaged.

After half term they changed how they were doing things in favour of much less contact and setting work every week, and while she did all right at first, she has now lost all motivation. There’s only so long you can work in a vacuum IMO.

It doesn’t really apply to the other two who had been going to sit GCSEs and A Levels, and whose coursework finished ages ago.

Over the past two or three weeks I would say there has been a real slump in morale in my household (I am alone with my teens) .

I'm been homeschooling since September after my eldest had an operation. He's followed live zoom tutorials that I've paid for and also pre-recorded lessons from tutors. Personally, we both prefer the ones that are pre-recorded as he can go back and watch them again. If there is anything that he is unsure of he can watch again or develop his research skills by finding out more himself - or ask me and we look together.
He is 12, I've found this KS3 science really good and thorough. They are narrated powerpoint on all the Science topics and then we work through the provided worksheets and supplement with a textbook. I've got the KS2 course from this provider as well which he suggests using alongside the CGP books.
www.ks3sciencecourses.com/

As a homeschooling parent, I wish there was a teacher out there that would follow this formula for History, Geography and English. Narrated powerpoint presentations that we can subscribe to (paid) that the child works through alongside a recommended textbook that can be cheaply and easily sourced via Amazon. It would solve a lot of our homeschooling woes. I think that any teacher/tutor that could come up with his would-be onto a nice little earner. I would be your first subscriber.