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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To tell you why 'live' teaching isn't the be all

207 replies

CrunchyCrumpet · 19/06/2020 20:52

Given the preference for 'live' teaching on MN I wanted to dispel some of the misconceptions widely held on this as its entirely possible we'll see a mixture of in-school and remote learning going forwards.

Research shows us that there is no significant difference in learning outcomes between remote live lessons (with the teacher facilitating learning online) and other methods of remote learning (for instance narrated powerpoints, use of videos and/or instruction sheets). Interestingly it would seem that a recording showing the teachers face actually detracts from the learning.

What matters most is the quality of that teaching and whether it builds on the prior knowledge of the students and how that knowledge is assessed. All students are unique and need different learning methods to optimise their learning, in a class of 33 students the ideal is to get a mix of approaches to remote learning (worth noting here that school policy will influence that 'mix'). One of the huge positives of remote learning is the emphasis it can place on the development of independent learning skills.

Access to technology in of itself is a huge barrier to learning during these times, it is a shame that the free laptops promised were restricted to incredibly narrow criteria.

We can't replicate the classroom experience, however we can take what we know works and adapt it for remote learning. Something that takes a lot of work and a lot of trial and error with the tech.

Sorry that is so long! There are of course many other factors that interplay with the different approaches taken, I've focused on the learning here alone. Teachers know their students and will select the best approach available to them within the boundaries of school policy. As many PPs have said, if you have questions or problems with an approach speak to your school.

RemoteLearningRapidEvidenceAssessment.pdf EEF

OP posts:
GazeboParty · 21/06/2020 12:37

@noblegiraffe

The DfE funded a whole bloody school of video lessons, so have the BBC.
For A level?
Aragog · 21/06/2020 12:40

Not a single lesson of any sort to teach anything new

For this we NEED to blame the Government.
The Government in the briefings and in their guidance clearly stated that the national curriculum was suspended, certainly outside of option years down to reception. The schools were advised not to try to teach anything new and tasks, where set, should be more consolidation based.

noblegiraffe · 21/06/2020 12:43

Pretty sure the complaint about the lack of ANY lessons for SO MANY kids wasn’t about A-level.

There’s structured daily video lessons including interactive quizzes, activities and so on available for children in compulsory education.

Bladeofgrass · 21/06/2020 12:53

No lessons at all here. A huge pack of worksheets sent home at the beginning of lockdown. We have been doing 2 a day. Many are far too hard for him and there are no notes to explain them, just pages of sums, English worksheets or comprehension, That's it.

Ds has been going in to school for twice a week for 2 hours for a few weeks now. Mainly 1-1 with the teacher, sometimes 1 other child. No learning there, just a mixture of jigsaws, assault courses, craft sessions and den building.

Any type of teaching, live or otherwise, would have been appreciated.

When we have asked, we were promised an on line learning platform, which, when it finally materialized, had 3 pieces of work on , and was never marked or updated. (Admittedly I've not checked it for weeks, but it wasn't updated for the first month, so I gave up looking )

UmbrellaHat · 21/06/2020 12:56

And I hated doing it. I really, really hated it. I hated the thought that I could be recorded, that parents might be critical, that I looked fat, that it was out in the world forever, that my ex (now a parent at my school) might have a laugh at it. I know it sounds pathetic
Yes, too right, it does sound pathetic.
So the OP who is peddling 'evidence' is to try to hide the real reason why teachers make all sorts of excuses to avoid it.

noblegiraffe · 21/06/2020 13:03

Any type of teaching, live or otherwise, would have been appreciated.

www.thenational.academy/

www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize

GazeboParty · 21/06/2020 13:05

[quote noblegiraffe]Any type of teaching, live or otherwise, would have been appreciated.

www.thenational.academy/

www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize[/quote]
Again A level?

TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince · 21/06/2020 13:07

I delivered live learning.

Due to the digital divide, less than 20% accessed my lessons

noblegiraffe · 21/06/2020 13:08

gazebo the person I’m responding to has a child at primary school so how is your question (which I have responded to upthread) relevant?

SmileEachDay · 21/06/2020 13:19

So the OP who is peddling 'evidence' is to try to hide the real reason why teachers make all sorts of excuses to avoid it

You don’t think the EEF is solid evidence? Do you know what their entire reason for existing is?

applesandpears33 · 21/06/2020 13:31

Thank you @UmberellaHat for your honesty. I hadn't appreciated some of the things which you have raised. At my workplace we were just told at the start of lockdown that we had to get online and use online platforms so there was a part of me that couldn't understand why teachers were so reluctant to use them when everyone else was. It is good to see things from the other side. Communication is probably the way through this. .

GazeboParty · 21/06/2020 13:33

@noblegiraffe

gazebo the person I’m responding to has a child at primary school so how is your question (which I have responded to upthread) relevant?
It might help if you were more specific about which poster you are replying to you said...

The DfE funded a whole bloody school of video lessons, so have the BBC.

I asked about A level - I am aware the BBC bitesize might not stretch to A level but though maybe the the DfE might stretch to A level given we have had no teaching either!

EducatingArti · 21/06/2020 13:35

I am a tutor so only ever do 1-2-1 teaching/learning. I mostly tutor maths and science.
Since lockdown I have done some of my tutoring online. Some parents either haven't wanted online lessons or the students wouldn't have coped with it because of specific learning difficulties.
I have had to dramatically change the way I have taught. Face to Face I would work to explain things to a student while very closely watching their body language and facial expressions to see if they 'got it'.
I would hardly ever use video, or online explanations when working face to face.

Online is totally different as you just can't read the body language the same via zoom or whatever. It is also completely exhausting to try.

Working online, I have found the student is learning far better with "flipped" learning, or watching a well presented video explanation ( mathswatch, Corbett maths or similar) and trying some basic questions in their own time and then I can help them with stuff they are finding tricky.

From my own experiences of teaching, I'm not sure the totally live lesson is the best way for students to learn.
I think being able to watch something recorded ( either by the teacher or already available online) and then try stuff and then have some opportunity once a week to ask questions of the teacher, is probably the best that can be managed. It is not as "spoonfeedy" though as classroom learning can be or sit back and just do what the teacher tells you.
I think some students find this change in attitude/ approach quite difficult to take on board, but it is there that a parent can help, encouraging them to take a more self-motivated approach.

noblegiraffe · 21/06/2020 13:39

gazebo I am very surprised that your sixth form/college has not provided any resources for A-level teaching given that they’re exam years. It is a minority of children who take A-levels post-16 and I expect that it would be too complicated for a central effort to try to co-ordinate online provision for all the various post-compulsory education options.

If you would care to start your own thread in secondary I’m sure teachers could chip in with ideas. For example for maths I could direct you to narrated PowerPoints and other resources.

GazeboParty · 21/06/2020 13:42

@EducatingArti

I am a tutor so only ever do 1-2-1 teaching/learning. I mostly tutor maths and science. Since lockdown I have done some of my tutoring online. Some parents either haven't wanted online lessons or the students wouldn't have coped with it because of specific learning difficulties. I have had to dramatically change the way I have taught. Face to Face I would work to explain things to a student while very closely watching their body language and facial expressions to see if they 'got it'. I would hardly ever use video, or online explanations when working face to face.

Online is totally different as you just can't read the body language the same via zoom or whatever. It is also completely exhausting to try.

Working online, I have found the student is learning far better with "flipped" learning, or watching a well presented video explanation ( mathswatch, Corbett maths or similar) and trying some basic questions in their own time and then I can help them with stuff they are finding tricky.

From my own experiences of teaching, I'm not sure the totally live lesson is the best way for students to learn.
I think being able to watch something recorded ( either by the teacher or already available online) and then try stuff and then have some opportunity once a week to ask questions of the teacher, is probably the best that can be managed. It is not as "spoonfeedy" though as classroom learning can be or sit back and just do what the teacher tells you.
I think some students find this change in attitude/ approach quite difficult to take on board, but it is there that a parent can help, encouraging them to take a more self-motivated approach.

I think the self led approach worked ok for a few weeks but the lack of any personal contact from a teacher and they noticed that teachers were not marking or giving feedback on work submitted led them to stop submitting work - they didn't see the point if no one was looking at it and then finally to not doing the work - nobody noticed that either! The kids still need staff contact, they need feedback - they need to know that the teachers knows they exist.
EducatingArti · 21/06/2020 13:44

I agree the students need some kind of contact and feedback from their teachers. I'm not sure that a timetabled live video lesson is the best way of doing it though.

noblegiraffe · 21/06/2020 13:45

So your kids have been set work gazebo but aren’t doing it because it’s not marked?

That’s a different problem isn’t it?

GazeboParty · 21/06/2020 13:49

@EducatingArti

I agree the students need some kind of contact and feedback from their teachers. I'm not sure that a timetabled live video lesson is the best way of doing it though.
Yes but at least they would see their teacher and feel connected to their class, their subject. Registration would get them up early in the morning - give them more structure - some kids really need structure. I have one that is a great self learner - she could easily do without school - learns better at home, the other finds it more challenging - he needs structure, instruction and connection. He needs to be accountable to a teacher and seeing them every day would fix a lot of what's going wrong at the minute.
GazeboParty · 21/06/2020 13:51

@noblegiraffe

So your kids have been set work gazebo but aren’t doing it because it’s not marked?

That’s a different problem isn’t it?

That's part of the problem. They have done work, it's set once a week from the textbook - one is losing his way - motivation is falling off...as it is doing for many people who wfh, he needs staff contact.
EducatingArti · 21/06/2020 13:52

One of my students is at a school where the teachers are doing a great job of trying to keep students engaged, offering times when they can connect with teachers to ask for help etc. Even there I am noticing messages along the lines of " Lots of you are very behind with the set work. Please make sure you catch up with the work asap or we will need a lot of lunchtime sessions next term to make sure everyone is up to speed/ I am writing profiles at the moment." type comments.

noblegiraffe · 21/06/2020 13:53

he needs staff contact.

This doesn’t have to be a live lesson though, does it? Work not being marked wouldn’t be solved by a live lesson either.

What did his college say when you/he requested feedback?

SmileEachDay · 21/06/2020 13:54

GazeboParty

How would any of that work for the 50% of pupils in my school who have no adequate access to a device and/or internet?

We offer a timetable of emailed lessons and a hard copy pack that mirrors them for those with no tech - these are delivered by staff. We are now doing in school lessons with Y10 and recording voiceovers for those PowerPoints for the ones not in school - and we’re supplying tech for the Y10s who don’t have it.

How is your idea better than what my school is delivering?

GazeboParty · 21/06/2020 13:54

@EducatingArti

One of my students is at a school where the teachers are doing a great job of trying to keep students engaged, offering times when they can connect with teachers to ask for help etc. Even there I am noticing messages along the lines of " Lots of you are very behind with the set work. Please make sure you catch up with the work asap or we will need a lot of lunchtime sessions next term to make sure everyone is up to speed/ I am writing profiles at the moment." type comments.
Yes it's definitely become more challenging as time marches on. My kids have always been very self motivated - I've never needed to stand over them.
Frazzled2207 · 21/06/2020 13:58

I do entirely agree that all day remote learning would be no good for most children. However I think something with a bit of personal interaction is important.
As it stands all we get it twinkl worksheets. After 3 months this is a disgrace IMO.

GazeboParty · 21/06/2020 13:59

@SmileEachDay

GazeboParty

How would any of that work for the 50% of pupils in my school who have no adequate access to a device and/or internet?

We offer a timetable of emailed lessons and a hard copy pack that mirrors them for those with no tech - these are delivered by staff. We are now doing in school lessons with Y10 and recording voiceovers for those PowerPoints for the ones not in school - and we’re supplying tech for the Y10s who don’t have it.

How is your idea better than what my school is delivering?

Smile, if my school were delivering that I'd be over the moon! The Powerpoints that dd gets are just like a few pages from a textbook - no voiceover. I don't think we have we have your tech challenges...I admire your school's determination to get around it.
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