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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To tell you why 'live' teaching isn't the be all

207 replies

CrunchyCrumpet · 19/06/2020 20:52

Given the preference for 'live' teaching on MN I wanted to dispel some of the misconceptions widely held on this as its entirely possible we'll see a mixture of in-school and remote learning going forwards.

Research shows us that there is no significant difference in learning outcomes between remote live lessons (with the teacher facilitating learning online) and other methods of remote learning (for instance narrated powerpoints, use of videos and/or instruction sheets). Interestingly it would seem that a recording showing the teachers face actually detracts from the learning.

What matters most is the quality of that teaching and whether it builds on the prior knowledge of the students and how that knowledge is assessed. All students are unique and need different learning methods to optimise their learning, in a class of 33 students the ideal is to get a mix of approaches to remote learning (worth noting here that school policy will influence that 'mix'). One of the huge positives of remote learning is the emphasis it can place on the development of independent learning skills.

Access to technology in of itself is a huge barrier to learning during these times, it is a shame that the free laptops promised were restricted to incredibly narrow criteria.

We can't replicate the classroom experience, however we can take what we know works and adapt it for remote learning. Something that takes a lot of work and a lot of trial and error with the tech.

Sorry that is so long! There are of course many other factors that interplay with the different approaches taken, I've focused on the learning here alone. Teachers know their students and will select the best approach available to them within the boundaries of school policy. As many PPs have said, if you have questions or problems with an approach speak to your school.

RemoteLearningRapidEvidenceAssessment.pdf EEF

OP posts:
Iggly · 20/06/2020 07:15

I disagree for primary school kids. How can you quietly go around the room while the kids are working to check understanding? It wouldn’t work without a 1-2-1 element.

People are too quick to dismiss the importance of face to face interaction and peer working in a classroom.

Iggly · 20/06/2020 07:16

I’ll add it also assume there’s an adult with the child who can provide help.

Teaching isn’t about pouring information into empty vessels. It’s not a one way activity.

pinkyboots1 · 20/06/2020 07:29

I'm loving my daughter's remote learning sessions, she has the recorded lessons with a live connection to the teacher during lesson time. It's great that she can revisit the lesson if needed and she gets to feel 'part of normality' again.

NeverTwerkNaked · 20/06/2020 07:51

@Iggly with my son's online school they can do group working during lessons. He loves it. The teacher puts the groups into separate online rooms and the teacher can also visit all the rooms to see how they are getting on etc.

NeverTwerkNaked · 20/06/2020 07:52

And the 1-2-1 element comes partly in the lesson - quizzes, interaction with the teacher, scope to pm the teacher. But partly from the homework and detailed feedback given

Iggly · 20/06/2020 08:00

That’s all very well @NeverTwerkNaked but it’s still not the same. Sometimes you get the odd kid struggling, they won’t put their hand up, quietly they get on but at the end of the lesson they’re none the wiser.

Also it’s difficult to share work in that setting on a live basis and quickly correct mistakes.

cptartapp · 20/06/2020 08:08

comfy my friend actually teaches several classes across year groups regularly including my DC. Has done for years. And is one of the two teachers conducting zoom lessons. She's very aware, and very honest about some teachers' efforts.

TheFallenMadonna · 20/06/2020 08:15

One third of our students don't have suitable internet access for any kind of online lesson, recorded or live. They have limited data 4G. Of those that do have broadband, many do not have a quiet place to sit and watch a live lesson. Anything accessed online has to be fully functional on a phone only, as that is what they have.

SmileEachDay · 20/06/2020 08:25

Yet again, we’ve got comparisons to the independent sector.

People don’t compare the local council swimming pool to the Gleneagles Spa resort in a vaguely surprised “but why can’t I get a 45 min hot stone massage whilst the swimming lessons are on” way. I wish they’d stop doing it with schools.

NeverTwerkNaked · 20/06/2020 08:31

@iggly of course it isn't the same. But while there are obstacles to being physically back it's about being open minded to the alternatives

spanieleyes · 20/06/2020 08:41

We don't do online lessons, for all the reasons that have been mentioned. However we do weekly catch up sessions via zoom for all the children still at home to be able to have a chat with friends and teachers, do a silly quiz or fun activity, chat about anything worrying them etc. Around a quarter of the children are able to take part, the rest have technology problems or aren't interested!

GuyFawkesDay · 20/06/2020 10:04

I mix mine up. One live lesson, 2 prerecorded ones a week for my GCSE classes.

KS3 get one live lesson a fortnight as timetable is weird and I see them once a week in one week and three times the following week!

Yes, some teachers are less confident, and able to teach remotely. I'm happy to admit I'm a stickler for discipline in a classroom and that's helped me line as my classes tend to behave. And I record live lessons so safeguarding of kids as assured.

But as for tech kit, I don't have a school laptop. I have to use my own. We can't even provide the staff with the kit they need.

MPs got £10k EACH for working at home kit. Just think about that.

welcometohell · 20/06/2020 11:05

I'm not a Teacher but I work in a school.
We initiated live lessons due to demands from a small but very vocal group of parents. It was a waste of time as very few students actually engaged. Far fewer than were engaging with the pre-recorded lessons, narrated power points, online quizzes and other work that Teachers have been submitting daily since we closed. The uptake for home-learning generally has been quite high, but it seems that it's some parents rather than students who actually want live teaching as the students didn't 'buy in'. Something parents don't always consider is that many Teachers also have their own small children at home and no childcare. Some Teachers simply don't have the technology at home, they may be working from old desktop computers with no web cams, or on their phones as they have their own DC needing access to their laptop for home-learning. As a school we do not have the funds to provide this for all teachers, let alone the many students who have issues with WiFi or access to computers at home. The laptops for disadvantaged children promised by the Government have yet to materialise, sadly.
There are many reasons why live lessons is not necessarily feasible but I think it's easier to assume it's laziness on the part of the Teacher.

myself2020 · 20/06/2020 13:11

One of the problems of some schools offering zoom lessons weeks in is that it was too little to late.
once children have disengaged, it is too late.
For us (independent school) zoom has been in place quite literally from day one. First only for storytime and formtime (continuing through the holidays!, allowing kids and teachers to get to grips with the technology ), then (after the holidays) fulltime. You can’t let the kids disengage and get out of good habits - once you’ve let that happen, zoom lessons are doomed, state or independent. Most state schools tried zoom weeks in, and then realised they had lost kids weeks ago.
Technology is an issue, but its not the main issue in many cases. its keeping kids engaged that is.

TheFallenMadonna · 20/06/2020 13:56

How do you know it's coming to it late rather than lack of appropriate tech?

slothbucket · 20/06/2020 14:17

For the millionth time, it’s not about teachers wanting to do live lessons or not being willing to do it.

It’s the fact that the MAJORITY of our pupils don’t have internet access or enough devices for the whole household to run online lessons.

State schools cannot only offer lessons to rich pupils, it has to be a level playing field and we don’t have laptops to loan out

mmgirish · 20/06/2020 14:19

I teach live every day. I've been doing it for 3 months. It's not about achievement. It's about the connection that the live lesson creates. Being able to have contact with the outside world.

myself2020 · 20/06/2020 14:36

@TheFallenMadonna because we had everything from phone over ancient ipads (ours, 10 years old) to gaming computers joining. technical problems were mainly sorted out in the first week, when it was all about stories and formtime. We had the usual iffy broadband as well
And while some schools have loads of kids without computers, local ones definitely have computers/pads/ phones (at least they all spend hours every day playing minecraft)... zoom lessons were tried 8 weeks in, but kids had given up at that point, especially since it went directly from nothing to full on teams lessons. that can’t work, and it didn’t. everyone needs to be engaged (and if its only for the 5 minutes chat time at the end), and have some time to find out how it works best.

pooiepooie25 · 20/06/2020 14:52

As I said on another thread, my primary state school has been doing Zoom lessons since the second week of lockdown.

We know all our children have access to tech. We are getting low uptake on some lessons and the parents moaning it's all too much.

Basically, teachers cannot win whatever we do...

CrunchyCrumpet · 20/06/2020 20:53

@Iggly at no point have we said that remote learning can replace the in classroom experience. What we're saying is that remote learning should utilise a mix of learning approaches, whether that's live, recorded sessions or remotely set activities.

OP posts:
Lougle · 20/06/2020 21:20

Two of my daughters get really upset if they have to use Zoom. One goes to Special School and the other has ASD but is in mainstream. Their schools have been great - The one in SS had her first zoom lesson this week and they agreed that she would have camera and microphone off, then just communicating via the chat function. The one in mainstream was allowed to just listen also.

Even my NT DD in primary freezes in Zoom - she didn't know how to break into conversation and the gap just never comes.

I think it takes real skill to make sure everyone participates at a level they can manage.

NeverTwerkNaked · 21/06/2020 08:25

@Lougle if it is a free for all on zoom that doesn't sound like a good approach anyway.
In a small group it can work but otherwise the school should do a "hands up" system like they would in class (you can get "hand up" buttons so they don't have to be on video)

HorseChestnutTree · 21/06/2020 08:43

He needs real company, there just isn't an adequate substitute.

This. Children learn so much more than just their subjects at school. Social interaction is such an important skill and if kids are sat on their own on a screen they are not seeing other kids, not learning behaviours from being around each other. I think one of the casualties of the the lock down will be social skills, and these are vital skills that we continue to need long after we have forgotten our grades at GCSE.

GazeboParty · 21/06/2020 09:01

I can’t open that link
If I need to understand something having someone explain it to me is often so much easier than trying to understand it from a book. So I start from that position - a person explains better than book.
I believe kids need contact with their teachers - helps to motivate them and keep them focused on learning - sending one email on a Sunday night with a pile of links - is not my idea of keeping in a touch. They need feedback and interaction, they need to know someone has noticed them - we all do.
I’m not saying zoom is the only way to deliver a distanced learning program but I like the idea of registration at the beginning of the day and afternoon as usual. I’d like teachers to respond to their work, give them feedback, acknowledge their existence. 12 weeks of email links, 2 emails to all pupils asking if they are ok- which they responded to but got nothing back is not good enough - so no zoom is not perfect but it goes a long way to being close to a classroom experience than a list of links.
If my kids teachers were working hard - it wasn’t on teaching my kids - and I have written to the school - they blame individual teachers - they allowed each teacher to decide what was needed and they majority went for the easiest laziest option available a weekly email with links and a question or two which they never marked.

Clutterbugsmum · 21/06/2020 09:12

I really struggle to believe so many children don't have access to the internet when so many have I phones, X boxes, psp's and other gaming devices.

But suddenly have no way of being able to access the internet for school work.

I stand by my believe that the government and schools need to really up their game and give much better education while children are at home. It also needs to be the at the same level across all schools and across the country. We can not continue to allow the children in this country to be lost to education.