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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To tell you why 'live' teaching isn't the be all

207 replies

CrunchyCrumpet · 19/06/2020 20:52

Given the preference for 'live' teaching on MN I wanted to dispel some of the misconceptions widely held on this as its entirely possible we'll see a mixture of in-school and remote learning going forwards.

Research shows us that there is no significant difference in learning outcomes between remote live lessons (with the teacher facilitating learning online) and other methods of remote learning (for instance narrated powerpoints, use of videos and/or instruction sheets). Interestingly it would seem that a recording showing the teachers face actually detracts from the learning.

What matters most is the quality of that teaching and whether it builds on the prior knowledge of the students and how that knowledge is assessed. All students are unique and need different learning methods to optimise their learning, in a class of 33 students the ideal is to get a mix of approaches to remote learning (worth noting here that school policy will influence that 'mix'). One of the huge positives of remote learning is the emphasis it can place on the development of independent learning skills.

Access to technology in of itself is a huge barrier to learning during these times, it is a shame that the free laptops promised were restricted to incredibly narrow criteria.

We can't replicate the classroom experience, however we can take what we know works and adapt it for remote learning. Something that takes a lot of work and a lot of trial and error with the tech.

Sorry that is so long! There are of course many other factors that interplay with the different approaches taken, I've focused on the learning here alone. Teachers know their students and will select the best approach available to them within the boundaries of school policy. As many PPs have said, if you have questions or problems with an approach speak to your school.

RemoteLearningRapidEvidenceAssessment.pdf EEF

OP posts:
Fizzysours · 22/06/2020 13:28

@buckeejit it's not about time...recording the little vids take forever. We are ok with that...it's our job. It's about what the kids prefer. Kids don't want me on camera being hilarious...they want to learn techniques. With our vids the kids pause, try for themselves, then get the solution. Can't do that with live lessons. It isn't a patch on a real lesson where I can correct their work

GazeboParty · 22/06/2020 14:38

@noblegiraffe

Even then, do you want your kid in zoom meetings all day? Adults seem to hate it.
Dh spends all day in zoom meetings - not as good as the real thing, whether he hates it or not is not really something he gives much thought to, it's the next best thing to proper face to face and that is what matters - refusing to zoom in business communication would just be laughable really.
Piggywaspushed · 22/06/2020 15:00

A lesson isn't a meeting, though.

And does he really spend 5 hours a day in them? He does nothing else??

noblegiraffe · 22/06/2020 15:00

it's the next best thing to proper face to face and that is what matters

Never heard of ‘a meeting that could have been an email’?

It is not good to be sat in front of a screen all day. Adults should have workstation assessments to make sure their screen is at the right height, that their chair supports their back correctly, that they have wrist support. How much consideration has been given to that for kids to be working on screens all day?

GazeboParty · 22/06/2020 15:25

@Piggywaspushed

A lesson isn't a meeting, though.

And does he really spend 5 hours a day in them? He does nothing else??

He works 12 hours a day - so that leaves 7hrs to do stuff.
GazeboParty · 22/06/2020 15:30

@noblegiraffe

it's the next best thing to proper face to face and that is what matters

Never heard of ‘a meeting that could have been an email’?

It is not good to be sat in front of a screen all day. Adults should have workstation assessments to make sure their screen is at the right height, that their chair supports their back correctly, that they have wrist support. How much consideration has been given to that for kids to be working on screens all day?

If a child's health was a consideration why are they expected to carry very heavy books to school everyday.
noblegiraffe · 22/06/2020 15:31

Kids don’t carry very heavy books in my school. We can’t afford them.

GazeboParty · 22/06/2020 15:34

@noblegiraffe

Kids don’t carry very heavy books in my school. We can’t afford them.
We are expected to buy the textbooks and they are expected to take all their notes with them to every class - so 3 lever arch files is heavy enough without even the textbooks.
noblegiraffe · 22/06/2020 15:39

And now it seems you can’t complain because you don’t care if they are sat incorrectly at a computer all day.

Piggywaspushed · 22/06/2020 15:48

gazebo, may I respectfully suggest that your DCs educational experiences don't sound all that typical?

Could I also suggest that you stop with the whataboutery?

Carrying books is not remotely the same as 5 hours of screen time. Whete goes homework sit in all that? I am finding independent work is now being discouraged in my school because we have taken up their time.

GazeboParty · 22/06/2020 15:57

@Piggywaspushed

gazebo, may I respectfully suggest that your DCs educational experiences don't sound all that typical?

Could I also suggest that you stop with the whataboutery?

Carrying books is not remotely the same as 5 hours of screen time. Whete goes homework sit in all that? I am finding independent work is now being discouraged in my school because we have taken up their time.

You know - if you are going to be concerned about a child's health then be concerned not just when it suits your argument. Speak to physios about the damage of heavy school bags on children's backs...not that you think it really matters so why bother.

I'm signing out now - this has all got a bit stupid.

Piggywaspushed · 22/06/2020 15:59

I have a bad back!

Lugging heavy bags is bad for kids and I always tell them not to overstuff them.

It is a different tissue, and I am sure physios will be hearing form a whole new swathe of people : young and old , with RSI and back , shoulder and lower back pain : and the resultant migraines. It is actually a serious issue.

Lougle · 22/06/2020 18:45

I think the hardest thing is that DD2 has started to question the relevance of her teaching. Today she had a science lesson on 'the structure of the leaf'. She couldn't understand why she has to know how a leaf is structured. I told her that we need to understand the importance of vegetation in our ecosystem, etc., but ultimately, it's on the curriculum, it's been set by a teacher, so she has to do it. But an hour's lesson was watching a quite cheesy 10 minute video, cutting and sticking terms onto a sheet and making a leaf structure cube out of a printed net.

SmileEachDay · 22/06/2020 19:43

But an hour's lesson was watching a quite cheesy 10 minute video, cutting and sticking terms onto a sheet and making a leaf structure cube out of a printed net

So the school had remotely planned some content input, an activity to embed the knowledge and some consolidation.

What would you have preferred?

Piggywaspushed · 22/06/2020 19:51

As I said upthread, parents have become Ofsted by proxy it seems.

HoldMyLobster · 22/06/2020 19:54

Mine have maybe 2-3 hours of Google Meet online lessons a day at the most, and do their school work and take breaks in between. That seems to work pretty well in terms of balance. They did find focusing on online lessons tough at first, then they got used to it.

They also get every third school day off, other than afternoon advisory. My 11th grader spent a lot of that time preparing for her AP exams. My 9th grader spent it mostly slumped on a couch staring at computer games - he gets far more screentime on non-school days than on school days :-)

We actually did go and get them all proper desks and office chairs when it became obvious that schooling was switching to online, and I upgraded the internet to our house as we have 6 people all online at once - 2 working from home, 2 doing college courses and 2 doing high school courses.

The things I appreciated about the school and teachers were that very early on they made sure people had the technology they needed, they did their best to improve the way they delivered the education as they learnt more about it from experience, they followed up on making sure students (especially those not attending lessons or handing in work) were OK, they provided free school meals to all throughout the process, and they regularly asked for feedback on how they were doing.

Now that they're making their plans for potentially having to do some online school in September, they've sent out a fairly detailed questionnaire asking what worked well, what needs to be improved, what suggestions we may have.

They have said that they do not feel that what has been offered since March was good enough long term and their goal is to improve on it.

HoldMyLobster · 22/06/2020 19:58

I really do think giving teachers every third day of no online lessons to catch up on marking, preparing lessons, doing 1x1s with students was invaluable in this process.

Lougle · 22/06/2020 20:06

"So the school had remotely planned some content input, an activity to embed the knowledge and some consolidation."

I'm not sure that cutting out a net and gluing it together is consolidation, tbh.

I'm not complaining about the lesson concept, but it was supposed to be an hour long lesson and it lasted all of 20 minutes.

It's not the teacher's fault that DD2 isn't feeling inspired by it. It's just a hard slog to keep her engaged through lessons that she's struggling to see the relevance of. She's a good girl, very compliant at school, but she has ASD and that can lead to some very black and white thinking.

endlessginandtonic · 22/06/2020 20:56

As I said upthread, parents have become Ofsted by proxy it seems.

This seems a good thing to me.
I'm not critical of the job my dc's teachers have done at all but I cannot see a little more parental involvement being a bad thing.
I can see that some teachers are better than others but to be honest I already knew this as I had listened to my dc talk about them and had met them all.
Parents should expect good teaching, they should also support teachers to attain this.

SmileEachDay · 22/06/2020 21:01

It's just a hard slog to keep her engaged through lessons that she's struggling to see the relevance of. She's a good girl, very compliant at school, but she has ASD and that can lead to some very black and white thinking

So that’s a different issue I think. If relevance is important to her then show her how the curriculum builds - she needs to learn the little bit of knowledge in order to build towards big knowledge. Plus, knowledge of this stuff is her key to understanding the world - once she’s finished the tasks, maybe she can go outside and find the different bits of a leaf - are they the same on big and small leaves? What about blades of grass? What would happen to a leaf if it didn’t have one of the bits?

I mean it depends a bit how old she is and how interested she’s likely to be, but I’d say remote learning is the perfect time to help her contextualise some of this stuff in a way that (sadly) never really happens in school.

Piggywaspushed · 22/06/2020 21:04

Parental involvement to support the child's learning , yes. Parental critique of teaching methodologies, materials and delivery, not so much.. especially if one's own background isn't educational!

Piggywaspushed · 22/06/2020 21:06

To be honest getting set work done in 20 minutes is no different to lessons when some students steam ahead and get stuff down well ahead of the rest!

Itstheprinciple · 22/06/2020 21:17

The biggest advantages of online lessons IMO are the ability to have discussion and the fact it keeps the lessons structured and moving along for the pupils and they see and converse with other students.

EducatingArti · 22/06/2020 21:22

Seeing and conversing with other students can prevent lessons from being structured and kept mowing along though!

PenOrPencil · 22/06/2020 21:23

Before my school told us not to do live lessons any more (access and child protection issues) I tried them with my classes. Unless I was teaching very small groups of 6th formers it was nothing like actual teaching in class at all. Interaction was stilted and difficult and I ended up mostly lecturing to keep the pace.

I am really happy now with recording lessons on loom. I have trialled several things but most students prefer the prerecorded lessons as they can complete them at their own pace and on their phones.

I had no training or guidance for any of this. I am very lucky to have my own laptop, speedy internet access and a really good network of other teachers to share ideas with.