It isn't white privilege

[L777]

AIBU to think white privilege should be BAME disprivilege?
I think the majority of the time, white people are treated as everyone should be treated, and BAME are treated badly. So white aren't privileged, BAME are disprivileged?
I of course think everyone race/demographic should be treated equally. This should be achieved by treating BAME better, not white worse? If it was white privilege, we would have to treat white people worse for everything to be as it should... for example, I don't think people get job offers because they're white. I think black people dont get job offers because they're black.

I know this isn't very significant or going to change the world, just thinking out loud

Agree.

Give everyone opportunity from day dot. Let them grow up feeling they are valued and can be valued members of society.

The are many unpriviledged white people and many privileged BAME people. It's not a catch all phrase or real reflection of the whole of society.

I think I get what you mean. An equivalent example would be the gender pay gap, and saying that's its because women are underpaid rather than because men are overpaid (obviously you can argue the toss on this one but it's something that can be framed either way which I guess is what OP is saying about white privilege vs BAME discrimination).

I think @KylieKoKo’s poster sums up the issue nicely and clearly.

Equal rights for black people doesn't mean less for white people - it isn't pieces of pie getting shared around.

@Popc0rn

"is every system skewed in the favour of whites? Or is it skewed against BAME?"

It's both. If you favour one group then you put others at a disadvantage.

Yeah it’s the same thing mathematically. If one group gets a favour or advantage over the other then the other group automatically gains a disadvantage as an effect.

Giving person A an “advantage” of an extra 3 seconds in a running race over person B means exactly the same as a “disadvantage” of taking 3 seconds away from person B and changing nothing with person A.

But I do know what you’re sort of trying to say. It’s just a semantics thing.

A privilege means, relative to someone else, you have an advantage.

That’s basically it.

White privilege exists, it’s real so let’s not try to twist our tongues trying to deny it or downplay it.

The history of men in the last few hundred years has shown time and time again, white people have predominantly invaded other people’s lands, like parasites, destroyed culture and a way of life, and then claimed to be better than those with brown skin.

“ You could argue that you seeing white people as the "standard" is in fact white privilege in action!“

Yes

I said this re black face and the argument against whiteface.

I believe by saying it's ok for black propel to white face because of the white privilege believe hij are actually reinforcing the difference and encouraging treating the races differently.

I said oppressing beige people was not the way to improve the oppression of black people.

I've had some real abuse from saying this.

I get what you mean...

Think it comes from the language used to academically study race... Maybe a way of not discussing it in a disempowering way for people already disempowered?

Did you see the recent statement by Stomzy though
" The uncomfortable truth that our country continuously fails to recognise and admit is that black people in the UK have been at a constant disadvantage in every aspect of life – simply due to the colour of our skin. "

Very powerful and doesn't get the conversation sidetracked by poor/disadvantaged white people saying 'I'm not privileged!'.

Also think black disadvantage, Pakistani disadvantage is better as BAME is such a crap catch all, the discrimination faced by different ethnicities is v distint

White privlege means the whole system is designed to benefit you as a white person over people of colour. That system has to be totally and utterly destroyed for true equality to take place - that may mean that white people would have to feel some pain in the interim. That may mean not only assigning race quotas for some job roles / education courses; but applying maximum white person quotas.

Having a white disabled child I do wish people would fight for this minority group as much.

All we get is abuse for expecting disabled toilets, parking spaces and bus spaces left empty for those who are the designed for. We get accused of expecting privilege.

We are a very skewed society in our thought processes.

Yet we should stand strong together. After all. We are all just bones, liquids, muscle and DNA!

Why don't you invest your time thinking about ways you can actually further the BLM cause, instead of all this musing over what is, at best, semantics and at worst 'all lives matterism'?

Privilege is relative, not absolute. It doesn’t require a norm or a default. White privilege means lack of privilege for BAME people, and vice versa.

Assuming that you did need a ‘baseline’, though, setting the default from which to deviate as ‘how white people are treated’ is skewed, I think. It feels like the norm to a white person. But to a black person (all other factors being equal) I bet it looks like a real fucking privilege.

Making this about something that black and minority ethnic people don’t have, rather than about something white people have as an extra help, may feed the narrative that it’s on BAME people to get the ‘missing’ thing, rather than white people recognising we have extra.

Probably you are wanting to make a distinction between relative and absolute privilege, when the word privilege on its own is usually understood by most listeners to mean relative privilege in this particular context.

"White people are undoubtedly treated better than BAME. I think this is because BAME are treated badly, not because white are treated particularly well."

In your opinion OP, are there any examples of how white people are currently not treated particularly well as a direct consequence of their skin colour? I can't think of any, and that's my "white privilege", none of my difficulties in life have been caused by my skin colour.

Are you silly for real op as my teens would say. People have very politely explained to you what white privilege means - and explained why it might be difficult for a white person to think about white privilege. What is so hard to understand?

@itsgettingweird I completely agree. Disabled people probably face the biggest obstacles going as they have literal physical obstacles as well as social and institutional ones - poor disabled people even more so. Exactly what you said. People think you are being uppity or entitled just for expecting basic human rights facilities like working disabled toilets or building access.

Whilst I understand what you're trying to get at, it IS white privilege.

BAME disprivilege is seen as something for the BAME community to fight against. White privilege is something that white people need to look at and address. That's what will ultimately change the status quo.

I think what you are missing here is that the recruiter is most likely white. Selecting mostly white people and rejecting foreign names. The privilege is caused by people who are white. (Mostly) White recruiters, white managers, white police officers, white judges. So yes it's white privilege.

Disabled people are treated badly but even there white disabled people are treated better than BAME disabled people. Case in point a female relative who is bed bound lives with us - her carers have never combed her hair or helped her apply make up because ‘it’s not their job’. But I overheard them tell each other they did it for white clients - when I complained I was told it was a discretionary service.

@MuthaClucker

Whilst I understand what you're trying to get at, it IS white privilege.

BAME disprivilege is seen as something for the BAME community to fight against. White privilege is something that white people need to look at and address. That's what will ultimately change the status quo.

Oo I don't know, feel like people are way more uncomfortable/listen seriously if I discuss how I've been disadvantaged by not being white. Discussions of white privilege just seem to centre their feelings of guilt and become an opportunity to declare their support.

White privilege is a much more useful term, when people understand it properly.

It encompass the blindness that we have towards racist microagressions, for example, because we've never experienced it. And it's something we have because of the way our society has been built, largely by white people.

To put the onus on its also helps us to see that we all have a responsibility towards creating a fairer society.

To say BAME disprivilege puts the onus back on the people that are discriminated against to solve the problem. And that won't work, because we all have a part to play.

And "disprivileged" is an incredibly ugly word.

Apart from anything else the 'dis' prefix would imply that something had been removed or undone. Consider the difference between 'disable' and 'unable'. 'Disable' means to make something incapable of functioning to its full potential. 'Unable' means it couldn't do it in the first place.

Did (any significant portion) of BAME communities ever have any privilege in the first place? Nope. that's the whole fecking point.

I understand your point. When we say it’s white privilege to not be stopped unfairly by the police, are we saying that everyone should be stopped unfairly by the police? It’s semantic but I understand