AIBU by not being convinced about moving to Ireland?

[Shedbuilder]

My partner's grandparents were born in Ireland and so she's been able to obtain an Irish passport. I'm English. We're very pro-EU and horrified by Brexit and we hate the current government and direction the UK is taking. We're wondering about putting our money where our mouths are and moving to Ireland. Our parents are all dead, we don't have children, we're on good terms, but not particularly close, to our siblings and their families. We'd plan to come back and visit friends and family in the UK several times a year and we've factored in the cost of doing that.

It would suit my partner well. She's very gregarious, she has the blarney and she also has some family over there already. I wouldn't know anyone. I also worry about what it would be like to be noticeably English in Ireland. I'm not at all posh but I sound a bit Radio 4.

I'm concerned that my partner has some pretty romantic ideas about Ireland. She expects it to be so much better than England. She's just been ranting at the far righters Nazi-saluting at the cenotaph and saying proudly that it wouldn't happen in Ireland. I made the mistake of replying no, it wouldn't happen in Ireland because Ireland stayed neutral during WW2 and then for years persecuted and scapegoated the Irish men and women who volunteered to fight Hitler. That didn't go down well.

The area we would be looking at is probably somewhere within a five-mile radius of Enniscorthy and within relatively easy reach of Wexford and Dublin. Also close to the Rosslare ferry and the coast. The property in that area seems excellent value for money: currently looking at a spacious 4-year-old four-bedroom house on an acre, well away from neighbours, and with a separate double garage and a barn for under £300,000.

We know we'll have to have private medical insurance. We know that we'll have a lot of learning to do and that the chances are I'll be an outsider for the rest of my life. As a lesbian I'm used to that. I'm also aware that Ireland has its own issues around transgender and women's rights, but they seem no worse than they are here.

So tell me, would you move to Ireland if you could?

The Irish accent is softer and quieter. Anybody speaking too loudly will be looked at and frowned upon. It is considered to be a sign of being either rude or rough or both

Agree - and you hear the quieter and softer Irish speech when you are somewhere outside of Ireland and hear both Irish and English parties at other tables in a restaurant or at an attraction. Within Ireland, louder volume and higher pitch stand out - it's often American or English voices, and you see looks being exchanged among the rest of the patrons of a pub or restaurant.

My exColonial officer uncle spoke very softly, almost conspiratorily, to people. This is how he gained the trust of the local poitin supplier and hundreds of Irish friends, who would have dismissed him as a 'type' if he had used a 'Major-General' vocal approach.

Like I’d never call a friend ‘that Irish one’.

But Irish people refer to women as "wan" all the time. So yer wan from the house on the hill. Yer wan from the next village. Yer wan from Dublin. The English wan. It's a colloquialism, not an insult or derisory term.

Like I’d never call a friend ‘that Irish one’.

I agree with the pp, in Ireland people are referred to as 'yer one' all the time. Yer one across the road, yer one in accounting, that Spanish one...if you are reading it as an insult, you don't understand Hiberno-English. The issue lies with you, not the people using the phrase.

I dont really think pointing out male privilege is a thing is exactly going to shock anyone.

Au contraire, people here have asserted that marriage equality and a gay Taoiseach mean that being a lesbian won't matter.

The default assumption about women in Ireland is that they are all available to men or even fair game for men. Scratch the surface and there it is.

Some posters have commented about the level of comment directed at them on the street, and I think that is a fairer prediction of what to expect in terms of assumptions the OP and her partner will encounter.

I am talking about micro aggressions that all women are subject to in Ireland, as opposed to abuse akin to the beating and humiliation of the lesbians on the bus that happened in London last year.

I found everyone very into each other’s business and many were very focused on religion. I found the Irish in general to be very scathing of each other and there was a real anti English attitude. I was frequently called that ‘English wan’ or a ‘blow in
Jasus talks about generalisation did you live in an old folks residents.
I was referred to as the Dub or Irish lass when I live in the UK it was a easy way to describe me.
I don't know or care for anyones business.
There's banter and bullying it sounds like you experienced banter.

Homophobia exists, of course it does this is not a land of unusual tolerant people!! But I do think that it's less tolerated (homophobia that is) so if anything is ever said changes are others will defend.

@CherryValanc, are you gay? Sorry to be personal, just wondering how you'd come by your experience of homophobia.

I agree with posters upthread that the parallel to American having had a black president are a little clumsy, but this comment really grated:

On another note, our Taoiseach, who has received his share of homophobic insults, now has an approval rating of 75%!

Like, um .... his share of homophobic insults? That's a really weird and unfortunate colloquialism to choose. There's not actually a fixed number of homophobic insults that have to be made, you know. And it's not wonderful and delightful that 75% of people approve someone and yet still, he's been on the receiving end of homophobia.

I mean, Jesus wept. I get that the UK has a shocking record of sanctioned homophobia in politics, but this is not a defence of Ireland.

Anyway, just to be fair, I must admit the idea that Dublin doesn't have an underground and therefore you need a car is making me laugh. Dublin has really, surprisingly excellent public transport IME. I'd take the (good) bus service or the Luas over the grime of the underground any day.

Au contraire, people here have asserted that marriage equality and a gay Taoiseach mean that being a lesbian won't matter.

Also think this is absolutely on point.

Yes I do understand the colloquial things and to some extent it’s banter but it was that among a number of other things. Some subtle, some not but absolutely an undercurrent of not feeling accepted. There were some really awful things said to me , but thankfully much less often.
Interestingly, my Ex partners Mum lives I’m Ireland and has fir 40 years. She loves it but also feels like an outsider.
I’m not by any means saying all Irish people are like the people I experienced, just sharing how I found it in the particular place I lived.

But how many other foreign countries have you lived in, @Grapewrath? It sounds to me as if some of the people claiming to have felt anomalous/ othered as Brits in Ireland simply don’t have much experience of living longterm in countries other than Ireland and their own, and are viewing the state of simply being a foreigner in someone else’s country as indicating something specific about being British in Ireland. It’s perhaps the geographical proximity and shared language that makes some people think they’re not very different societies.

Hi
I’ve lived in Turkey, Greece and Spain due to doing seasonal work. Not for as long as Ireland though- we worked in resorts so most people were locals but also English speaking. I didn’t really encounter anything similar there. They were all really friendly. Perhaps it’s a holiday destination thing? No idea.
I didn’t go to Ireland expecting it to be like England. I was aware of it being a totally different country, though I agree some people go with they expectation

Also have to add that I had no problems on public transport in Dublin

All politicians get regularly criticised/insulted on online threads and a few years ago for Leo, often a few of the insulters would mention his sexuality.

Nowadays the insults are 5th count/ caretaker Taoiseach.

I think things have changed a lot here in the past few years.

And if Obama, or someone similiar (or anyone but Trump) was president of the US, that would be better for equality.

Next we need a female Taoiseach please (not MaryLou).

OP I don't think i need to add anything much that hasn't already been said, but I'm an Irish lesbian and I live in Co Wexford just outside of Enniscorthy, so if you want to know anything specific about the area you're considering moving to I'm happy to help.

And if Obama, or someone similiar (or anyone but Trump) was president of the US, that would be better for equality.

I don't think that is the case. The Obama presidency reignited the old Confederate hatred. It wasn't his fault. The hatred predated his presidency and it will certainly outlive it. Hence Trump, after all. The police were beating their fellow Americans to death, shooting them, using the stranglehold, and harassing black American drivers all through the Obama presidency.

If Joe Biden is elected in November it will be a sign that a certain number of Americans (very unlikely to be a huge majority) is appalled at Trump and his moronic, racist, misogynist supporters. It won't be a signal that much will change in America, because when push comes to shove, meaningful change isn't really what the majority wants. I suspect Biden voters hope for a return to public decency, which will involve a resumption of lip service and platitudes.

All politicians get regularly criticised/insulted on online threads and a few years ago for Leo, often a few of the insulters would mention his sexuality.

Do you not get how homophobic that is as a statement, though?

You're equating all posters being criticised or insulted with him receiving homophobic comments. I'm sorry, but being gay is not a thing you 'criticise' in the same way you might disagree with someone's fiscal policies. Implying that there's parity between political critique of one person and homophobic insult of another implies that you really believe homosexuality is an actual flaw.

I don't know if you thought that through or not, but honestly, it does ring true of the kinds of attitudes I keep hearing in Ireland and it is different from the parts of the UK I've lived in.

• 'all posters' should read 'all politicians', obviously.

The default assumption about women in Ireland is that they are all available to men or even fair game for men. Scratch the surface and there it is

What? I’ve lived in Ireland all my life, 40 years, and I don’t consider this the ‘default assumption’ at all, and neither does anyone I know.

On the other hand, I’ve read countless threads on here about the hassle women (primarily in the UK) receive from men just walking down the street.

I’m not saying that doesn’t happen to a degree in Ireland, but it’s far from the default, IMO.

The default assumption about women in Ireland is that they are all available to men or even fair game for men. Scratch the surface and there it is

Don’t recognise this at all.

In fact, quite the opposite.

I’ve heard many non Irish here comment on how independent Irish women are.

@Grapewrath

Hi OP I never post but wanted to give you my opinion. I had an Irish partner a few years ago and we lived in London but would spend good stretches of time visiting Ireland. Anyway, we did eventually move there and I actually found it very difficult and oppressive. I didn’t live in a city, but in a larger town. I found everyone very into each other’s business and many were very focused on religion. I found the Irish in general to be very scathing of each other and there was a real anti English attitude. I was frequently called that ‘English wan’ or a ‘blow in’ I went to Ireland with high hopes as everyone seemed so friendly on holidays, but I found the people hard to fathom when I lived there. They were very funny, friendly and charming but not so behind each other’s backs! I made some amazing friends though and lived in a beautiful house. I had a great job and the people I did connect with are my friends for life. I wish you well with your decision

Grapewrath, You did say Ireland but I was just wondering where you went and if it was Northern Ireland.

Are you still living in Ireland, Sarah? The next thing I said was

Nowadays the insults are 5th count/ caretaker Taoiseach. I think things have changed a lot here in the past few years

The default assumption about women in Ireland is that they are all available to men or even fair game for men. Scratch the surface and there it is

I don't recognise this at all. I've spent about equal portions of my adult life living in England (London, Oxford and the Midlands) and in two different cities in Ireland, and now in rural Munster, and in general the level of everyday sexism/harassment has been less in Ireland. Certainly it's been no worse. I certainly don't recognise any fundamentally different set of male assumptions about women's 'availability'.

Hi no it was athlone I lived in

No, and yes, I read the next thing you said. It doesn't negate what you said first.

Thanks Grapewrath, It was just that the language, esp. 'wan' made me think of NI.

I endured far worse sexism and misogyny in the uk but i have the ability to join up the dots and figure out that that was because i was 22-36. I came back here at 36 so between 36 and 50 ive experienced far less sexism.
Not rocket science. Predatory men lech on young women