Am I the only person who doesn't know any trans people?

[LaureBerthaud]

Non goady question.

I don't know any, work with any or come across any trans people. Now it could be that they've done such a good job of transitioning that I don't notice, but where are they?

From googling there seems to be a best guess of 1% of UK population identify as trans or non binary, so not surprising you don't know any. I remember when working in a swanky boutique in my teens (80s) realising a couple customers were trans. I have two teenagers and they do not know any either.

Talking of hateful, check out this lovely lot in the photo

TBF, I've been called all-sorts from the other direction.

My son is in a relationship with a TW, it’s long distance at the moment as she had to go back to her usual home county for counselling etc prior to the lockdown. I use female pronouns out of consideration for her but she is young, vulnerable and clearly has mental health issues. My son is gay and is a very gentle kind soul so it works for them. I think she is really a gay young man who cannot come to terms with that and has jumped onto the trans wagon. I worry for her a lot.

I know a few.

One trans male who transitioned at least 30 years ago. A friend of a parent.

One at university, trans woman.

One close friend after university, now a trans man. They have gone through every 'label' possible, bi woman, gay woman, straight man, gay man and all inbetween. I'd say if identifying as a trans man made them happy, then so be it, but nothing does. They're the same 'woe is me', melodramatic personality regardless of how they present.

One other trans woman post university. They are a pervert, no ifs or buts about it. I don't have them on social media but others I know do. What they post is horrific, but to question it is transphobic.

I know 5, 4 trans women and 1 trans man

They’re just ordinary lovely people. Nine of us agree with self ID. But other than that, I hope that they can be awarded the same respect and protection that we get. They’re just normal people trying to go about their lives.

I know a few.

• daughter of family friend who was born intersex. They chose female at birth, but in her late teens/early twenties she decided that was wrong and is now living as a male. I have no idea if he has had any treatment or anything (I don’t know if that’s necessary seeing as he was born intersex anyway) but has very successfully transitioned and is very happy now. He must be in his 30s now I think.

• Pupil at the all girl’s school I work in came out as non-binary earlier this year. Must now be referred to as they/them. Wears trousers instead of a skirt (no trouser option on uniform list for anyone else) but in all other ways must conform to the uniform rules - so no dyed hair or shaved head or anything. I don’t come into contact with them as they don’t take my subject, so only know them to pass in the corridor. I do know however that they were always a very unhappy person, and that doesn’t seem to have changed since they came out. There were significant pastoral issues before and there still are.

• Several girls at my DC’s old school who now identify as M or are non-binary. All are very “alternative” (one wears prosthetic Spock ears to school, most have randomly coloured hair and what would be considered “extreme” hairstyles.) No issues with conforming however as uniform rules at the school are virtually non-existent, (or at least - not enforced anyway), and the school considers itself very “woke”.G DC was only there for a year and we had very little interaction with the school in that time. In a school of approx 850 pupils I can personally think of 4 M-F and 2 non-binary pupils. I am certain there must be more because I barely know any pupils there. One of the non-binary ones is the older sibling of my DC’s friend. Two of the F-M trans are in their immediate/close friendship group and that’s how I know them. The others are in two different year groups but also friendly with one another. Worth saying that the school is in Scotland where of course the school wouldn’t get to object anyway seeing as self-ID is the order of the day there anyway.

@Quickerthanavicar

Maybe if people knew a person who is transexual they would be less judging on here.

I am quite judgemental but then the one I know doesn't appear to be all that genuine because firstly they decided they were trans, then they decided it was too much hassle and so decided to ignore it, then they told their wife they weren't going to have treatment until they had had children and now they have told their wife they are pressing ahead with treatment no matter what their wife feels.

I feel fairly justified in judging them.

@Magicismagic

My son is in a relationship with a TW, it’s long distance at the moment as she had to go back to her usual home county for counselling etc prior to the lockdown. I use female pronouns out of consideration for her but she is young, vulnerable and clearly has mental health issues. My son is gay and is a very gentle kind soul so it works for them. I think she is really a gay young man who cannot come to terms with that and has jumped onto the trans wagon. I worry for her a lot.

I wish your son and his partner all the best. If I understand the Trans definitions correctly, your son is now considered to be a heterosexual man in a relationship with a woman. Not a gay man.

It goes back to JK Rowling’s statement that “if sex isn’t real, then there’s no same sex attraction”.

Sorry - correction - that should be 4 F-M that I know at my DC’s old school - not the other way around

My husband has a male colleague who wears very girlish short dresses And makeup and uses the ladies toilet. The colleague has asked to be referred to using female pronouns. I don’t actually care about it, but I found myself deeply uncomfortable when she appeared in the ladies room.

I know several students and a couple of distant colleagues in other departments, chiefly mtof. While I have individual sympathy for them, none of this has any affect on my accurate understanding of biology and the erosion of women’s biology-based rights based on male feelings.

@MiniatureHero

Just a little reminder that the validity / authenticity of trans people can’t be judged by how well they pass. It is, simply, harder for some trans people to pass than others because of physical characteristics which are out of their control. Those who don’t pass as effectively are more likely to be the subject of derision, judgement, or abuse. But The ability to pass is no reflection on a person’s identity and sense of self.

I agree with this statement to a degree. When I say to a degree, it’s because this kind of black and white argument leads to bearded men, who present and act male and assume male privilege in every way, being able to identify as female and further trample all over women.

I have known two adults. One thirty odd years ago continued to wear baggy trousers and jumpers as before with the same shoulder length hair. It was unusual at the time and I wondered what she had gained but accepted it meant something to her. Another, twentyish years ago, wore dresses but only light make up. She had been in a fairly public position as a man and it was a big deal to make the change, she lost her wife and family at the time but kept most of her friends.

I have come across two or three teenagers (girl to boy) in school.

I know a woman and see her as just that. Transitioned over 20 years ago. I couldn’t imagine ever asking her to not use a women’s toilet.

My DP did a session with a group many years ago before all this divisiveness. DP has seen and witnessed a lot of horror in his career. But said he felt really sad and upset at the violence and the abuse they had suffered. Really nasty stuff.

I haven’t read all the posts here. A few seem to want to divide and incite on this issue on either side. Not sure where that takes us or what that achieves.

Haters will commit and cause violence. Towards women and children and people they see as different. The online debates on this issue are causing hatred to grow and fester. Whether that is the intention or not.

I don't think I do.

W@Fearandsurprise why does there even need to be a heterosexual label, it’s @Magicismagic son and partner ‘their name’

Or @Magicismagic’s child

No you’re not alone. I don’t know any either.

I've never met a trans person. Well not that I know of.

@smallsteps88 out of curiosity, what does that mean though? Does anyone really identify as a woman?

I know 2 in their 30s (transman and transwomen) and heaps of teenagers.

I know at least three trans women and three non binary people - all of them are over 30. Of those 6, three are my actual friends, and three are acquaintances I see around and get on with.

So many of you sound so hateful. I just don't get it. At the very least live and let live.

Who @MumofBees? Am I reading a different thread? If you accuse people of being hateful, at least explain what you mean as it is definitely not apparent to me on this thread.

I haven’t read all the posts here. A few seem to want to divide and incite on this issue on either side

Please could you point out those posts you refer to?

I agree with this statement to a degree. When I say to a degree, it’s because this kind of black and white argument leads to bearded men, who present and act male and assume male privilege in every way, being able to identify as female and further trample all over women.

I think it’s a really important point, though. I will try to explain why.

For a start, I’m not convinced that men who act and present as men spontaneously or casually ‘identifying’ as women in order to impinge on women’s freedoms is a widespread problem. There may well be examples of this, but I don’t think it’s very common.

But more importantly, I think everyone benefits from decoupling the idea that ‘passing’ is an indication of trans validity. Here are the reasons why I think so:

1. It is discriminatory to people who will always struggle to pass, either because their physical features (height / fat distribution / bone structure etc) precludes it or because they aren’t able to afford the types of surgery that assist people in passing effectively.

1. I don’t think it helps teenagers. Many people are, rightfully, concerned about the possibility that teenagers may take steps to transition and then in time come to regret doing so. If teenagers are hearing the message that their identities are only valid or more valid if they pass, they may feel pressured into taking permanent steps to transition in order to access that perceived validity. If, however, we were more accepting of the identities of trans people even if they don’t pass well, it might help teenagers feel empowered to hold off on permanently transitioning until they were sure it was what they wanted.
2. I believe it would help people avoid rushing into transitioning and then wishing to detransition. Detransitioning is rare, but I think it would be rarer still if people felt accepted and valued regardless of whether they have had invasive surgical procedures etc.

Hate?? Where?? You want to go over to JK Rowling twitter thread to see what people are posting in there. It’s shocking. That’s hate.

Very interesting point about the poster with the gay son who is dating a TW. By TRA thinking this now makes him a straight man.