Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that Emma Watson is no feminist

455 replies

HermioneWeasley · 11/06/2020 08:26

So after JKR published her incredibly powerful essay and disclosed being a survivor of domestic abuse and sexual violence, Emma decides to tweet that trans women are women. Emma doesn’t condemn the misogynist abuse and threats of sexual violence that JKR has received, nor is she concerned about the facts JKR has shared of an over 4000% increase in girls being referred to gender clinics, or how autistic girls are disproportionately represented.

What is Emma’s “feminism” for exactly?

OP posts:
GreytExpectations · 11/06/2020 15:03

@GCAcademic

Emma Watson is actually a great feminist. I'd suggest people look at the speech she gave at the United Nations 2014 HeForShe campaign. Its 5 years old but I think the message is still relevant.

I heard it at the time and thought back then that it was extremely shallow. I can recognise a branding exercise and self-serving career move when I see them. I really dislike celebrity “feminism” and find it actively harmful. Women like Watson cynically and for their own self-benefit take up political space that is desperately needed by and for countless women who don’t have the myriad privileges that they do. Why would I want to hear from a woman who lives in a Hollywood bubble when I could hear from someone who has a professional background in, say, overseas aid and women’s empowerment, or a woman who has direct experience of living in a refugee camp, or whatever? And I suspect those who would rather listen to Watson than the latter are not interested in such issues, and are not likely to become so. I’m afraid that society is coming to the end of its collective tether with the privileged celebrity class, and these people risk causing a backlash against the very groups that they claim to speak for.

You are entitled to your own opinion but I disagree. I think her message of equality if perfect but I know a lot on Mumsnet don't agree with equality in feminism so I will stay out of the conversation.

On a side note, I think it's unfair to dismiss celebrities' opinions. Just because they are involved in the entertainment industry, it shouldn't diminish their own views and opinions.

QuarantineDream · 11/06/2020 15:05

I was never on the Watson bandwagon. Her UN "He for she" crap was utter nonsense - not one person could ever explain to me what it actually meant in real terms for women. She posted a pic of herself wearing a "trans rights" tee not long after Rowling's first foray into terfdom, then that ridiculous interview with Paris Lees and now shitting on the person who made her a famous multi-millionaire. She's just privileged hot air.

Also I was a huge HP fan and put off the whole franchise for years because of the films - they were utterly dreadful and not one of those kids could act.

I can't wait until they re-make them.

Sushiroller · 11/06/2020 15:10

Emma Watson is no feminist.

GreytExpectations · 11/06/2020 15:10

So just to clarify people disagree with Emma Watson because she supports trans rights and equality?

GreytExpectations · 11/06/2020 15:12

Sorry should also add, so people don't think she can be a feminist because she supports trans rights and equality?

PickAChew · 11/06/2020 15:18

No feminist would support threats of sexual violence against a woman, @GreytExpectations

SarahTancredi · 11/06/2020 15:18

That depends on what rights you are talking about the right to be treated with kindness and respect and not discriminated against then absolutely you can be a feminist

If you think penises should be allowed on a changing room meant for women and think women is am identity and not a reality then no. Cos knowing wht a woman is is the key point.

GreytExpectations · 11/06/2020 15:21

@PickAChew

No feminist would support threats of sexual violence against a woman, *@GreytExpectations*
How exactly did she support threats of against sexual violence? I saw her tweet and it doesn't seem supportive of that at all. I've also seen a lot of her videos and other discussions on the topic and again I haven't seen any support of sexual violence against women, could you please point these out to me? I must have missed them.
MujeresLibres · 11/06/2020 15:22

@Greyt it's not because she has a different opinion on trans rights, it's because she didn't stand in solidarity against the abuse JKR has received for stating her perfectly legal opinion. Compare with Alison Moyer, who said "Regardless how I feel about anything, I always hated a pile on since schooldays".

SarahTancredi · 11/06/2020 15:23

I would say supporting the right for male bodied people to expose their penises to women who dont consent constitutes condoning sexual harassment no?

GreytExpectations · 11/06/2020 15:24

[quote MujeresLibres]@Greyt it's not because she has a different opinion on trans rights, it's because she didn't stand in solidarity against the abuse JKR has received for stating her perfectly legal opinion. Compare with Alison Moyer, who said "Regardless how I feel about anything, I always hated a pile on since schooldays".[/quote]
Her tweet was about trans rights though. So why did she need to reference threats to JK Rowling in it? That's the same as saying anyone who doesn't post anything about BLM is a racist, which is obviously ridiculous.

GreytExpectations · 11/06/2020 15:26

@SarahTancredi

I would say supporting the right for male bodied people to expose their penises to women who dont consent constitutes condoning sexual harassment no?
That's a pretty offensive way to talk about transwomen. So no that's not sexual harassment unless you are suggest every transwoman is secretly a sexual predator?

PP said she supported sexual violence against women, that's different to the scenerio you are saying.

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 11/06/2020 15:32

Transwomen are male bodied people Greyt. There's nothing wrong with that.

SarahTancredi · 11/06/2020 15:35

Its offensive to not want to see a penis ?

Wow

GreytExpectations · 11/06/2020 15:42

@SarahTancredi

Its offensive to not want to see a penis ?

Wow

You know very well that's not what I said at all. If you want to twist my words than don't bother engaging
SarahTancredi · 11/06/2020 15:43

And why do you jump straight to assuming I think people are predators.

I dont wanna see my brothers my dads or my bosses either. Nothing to do with predator status. Everything to do with not wanting to see a penis I dont consent to.

Forcing women to do that is nothing more than stayed sanctioned sexual harassment

SarahTancredi · 11/06/2020 15:43

State sanctioned

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 11/06/2020 15:47

Nope, no one has said that. Maybe read posts and attempt to engage and discuss concerns instead of looking for ways to twist and chuck in a clever gotcha.

There is nothing, nothing offensive in what SarahT said.

ShebaShimmyShake · 11/06/2020 15:47

@SpocksEyebrows

Emma is a total hypocrite. She went off on a feminist rant just before Beauty and the Beast was released. I watched it expecting it to have been modernised to reflect 20th Century females but alas no. It was the same saccharin beautiful girl meets prince and lives happily ever after in a big castle. What a joke.
My objection was that it was utter shite with nothing that made the original good, and her miserable performance actually made it worse, which I didn't think would be possible. She can't act and she can't sing. Radcliffe is a terrible actor too.

I know that's not really relevant to the issue at hand, but it's just a bit galling when they're both so talentless and useless and Rowling is just so transcendent.

TorkTorkBam · 11/06/2020 15:49

@GreytExpectations

Sorry should also add, so people don't think she can be a feminist because she supports trans rights and equality?
No, it is because she is anti equality

Emma is saying that there is no difference between males and females. She says she thinks a transwoman is a woman and transmen are men. She thinks non-binary people are neither male nor female.

This is in reaction to a woman saying that sex is real and it matters.

There are genuine differences between males and females. You can't tackle inequality without recognising the differences.

Much of female inequality comes from our biology. We are smaller, we can't pack on the same amount of muscle, we have periods, can get pregnant, etc. Historically, globally, men have used these facts of life to keep women oppressed without voting rights, without education, without contraception rights, without the ability to leave the house without a chaperone etc.

If a transman is counted in the covid recovery stats as a man not a woman it makes the disease look less deadly to men.

Furthermore what Emma calls equality looks a lot like sexism. If a man likes to wear makeup and stereotypically female clothes and maybe have sex with men and he says he feels authentic as a woman then well everyone must agree that now the class "women" includes this man. "Men" cannot include such a non-conformist. He is now women's problem to include. The women must be inclusive of him. Men violently refuse to be inclusive of him.

People claiming to be progressive talk about men "living as a woman." They don't mean taking a pay cut, sacrificing career to care for elderly relatives and young children, being 4 inches shorter, having painful periods, being told to smile, being expected to do all the laundry and remember all the birthdays, and having a satnav not recognise your voice. They mean dressing up and acting submissive (until a woman says no).

The transmen living as men don't get to inherit as if they were men. They can't join that golf club. They don't grow 4 inches taller and gain 20lbs of muscle. If a man decides to rape them they stand no better a chance at defending themselves than any other woman. If their abusive boyfriend decides to batter them it will be a battering not a fist fight between men. If they get pregnant it will ravage their body and their life in a way that providing the sperm for the baby does not. They need the same services and protections as other females. They are not afforded the same privileges as males. The sexism remains.

GreytExpectations · 11/06/2020 15:50

@SarahTancredi

And why do you jump straight to assuming I think people are predators.

I dont wanna see my brothers my dads or my bosses either. Nothing to do with predator status. Everything to do with not wanting to see a penis I dont consent to.

Forcing women to do that is nothing more than stayed sanctioned sexual harassment

And again you keep twisting my words. I never said they were at all, I said the post suggesting that all transwomen sexually harass women suggests that and I was pointing out that was wrong. But you know this and you just keep putting words in my mouth to make your point
SarahTancredi · 11/06/2020 15:55

No I said that if emma supports the right for them force women to change long side them then that is supporting sexual harassment of women.

We do not consent.

Amd if you think women is sone kind of essence and not a sex class then that is exactly what hiu re supporting or what are you fighting for?

Because gender reassignment is already a protected characteristic. Its covered by hate Crime legislation as well.

They can also currently change markers on passports and driving license ms birth certificates so what else do they want?

What's left besides being allowed to change pee and reside on prison and refuges alongside women?

So yes shooting male bodied peoples "right" to force sex segregated spaces to become mixed sex then you are complicit on the sexual harassment of women

SarahTancredi · 11/06/2020 15:56

Supporting

Not shooting . Stupid auto correct

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 11/06/2020 15:58

That's not what she said greyt. But if women are forced to share e.g. changing rooms with male bodied people, we will see penises. And don't want to.

Bathbedandbeyond · 11/06/2020 15:59

I’ve just read it. I despair. JK is amazing.