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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think erasing monuments and blackface doesn't help solve the race issue at all?

254 replies

GinDaddyRedux · 11/06/2020 05:42

I will try and keep this brief but I am getting increasingly furious (not overstatement) at the typical kneejerk, self-serving, virtue signalling nonsense I am seeing around race in the UK, in response to the protests following the death of George Floyd in the United States.

For context, I am a mixed race (black Afro-Caribbean/white) male who grew up in London around great people, knowing and looking up to a lot of the chaps whose fathers came off the Windrush or came in the 60s and 70s to work in London on transport etc. I feel a real connection to the islands as a heritage, but have always been fervently British as it's the only home I've known since birth.

Here's the thing that I find ridiculous. Why, just why are we now spending so much time and effort going through every public monument and reference to colonialism or slavery, and every instance of blackface or other comedy on TV, and erasing them from view as some sort of panacea that will solve the race issue? When there are vital social issues that need addressing that will help black people far quicker and more fundamentally then dealing with blackface?!

I thought Little Britain was hilarious. I think every character was a fantastic send-up of modern British sterotypes. And for modern British stereotypes to actually work, you need black people funnily enough. So I have no problems with the premise. Going further - to indicate a black person on screen, there's only a few ways to go about it, and considering how Lucas and Walliams are the authors of all their characters, it was going to be necessary for them to do something.

Who on earth then considers it helpful to the race relations debate in this country, to remove something from public viewing, that is perfectly within the licence of art and comedy, and which I doubt has been named in the list of influential factors around race that lead to black men's deaths in police custody?

Similarly, we seem to now be forensically combing our civic institutions, universities, libraries, consecrated places, and checking whether any of the statues, bequests, named buildings are connected to slavery.

It's the sort of handwringing, worthy effort that I expected, because it makes people feel they are doing something. It makes for nice headlines and distracts from the real issues that actually need addressing.

Namely, if governments want to help black people, start with the environment some of us (not all!) grow up in. Look at the structural things in terms of poverty, lack of access to resources, deprived areas, parental structures, health services, and see where this tends to lead to.

Then look at the number of convictions for police who have been brought to trial for the wrongful death of a black person in custody. You'll be looking for a long time.

The reactions to the protests are typical of British leaders who look for low-hanging fruit and public headlines over anything more fundamental. We are a more inclusive country than we are given credit; when writing this I was reminded of how South Asian friends of mine were laughing at the character of Taaj from "Come Fly With Me", stating Lucas' accent and slang was eerily spot on for a Midlands Asian chap. There's a great British tradition that if folk are openly and happily taking the piss out of you, it means you're a mate. That sketch was definitely in that spirit.

I just feel that yes, little things and perceptions around race matter. But to cleanse our streets of statues won't change the fundamental destinations and outcomes for black men and women in the UK. It will just make (largely white) councillors, politicians and leaders feel better. And that's what this is always about in the end.

OP posts:
dooble · 11/06/2020 11:20

@Thinkingg I'm not sure I have never taken drugs & personally think sentences should be fairer eg a black person with drugs on them is likely to receive much harsher treatment than a white person. Maybe legislation is the answer but as you say still open to exploitation. It's so complex but how do we tackle structural inequality & racism in society without actually examining society?

Thinkingg · 11/06/2020 11:22

Good post @OrangeCinnamon. Social media does not seem a helpful medium in some ways - strangers have no idea who you are so just stereotype based on a few words.

derxa · 11/06/2020 11:23

yanbu, it's just a sticking plaster on a broken limb. It does fuck all to address the underlying causes of inequality and racism. It's the establishment going "look over there!" while they continue to count the millions Great, Great Uncle Tristan left them from the slave trade. Great comment.

SistemaAddict · 11/06/2020 11:42

Legalising thins isn't going to be the answer. Slavery was legal after all. Being legal doesn't make it right or improve the quality of life of those involved.

pilates · 11/06/2020 11:49

YANBU
Thank you GinDaddy, the most sensible intelligent post I’ve read in a while.

MaMaLa321 · 11/06/2020 11:57

It's the establishment going "look over there!" while they continue to count the millions Great, Great Uncle Tristan left them from the slave trade
I think this is driven by the Left. It's Labour councils in the UK that have set up further investigations into the role of slavery, or committed to checking out their public monuments.
I think the Right have enough on their hands without getting involved in this.

BovaryX · 11/06/2020 12:07

I think this is driven by the Left. It's Labour councils in the UK that have set up further investigations into the role of slavery, or committed to checking out their public monuments

Absolutely. The Mayor of London announced the forensic examination of statues fit for the dumpster directly after Priti Patel gave a great speech in which she unequivocally condemned those attacking cops and defacing statues. She also spoke about the racism she herself has experienced, including a cartoon depicting her as a cow with a ring through her nose. In the Guardian.

endofthelinefinally · 11/06/2020 12:09

I understand the Christopher Columbus statue in Minnesota is down now.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 11/06/2020 12:11

@Sandybval

Yes it has, plenty of people have actually pushed for change. In context of this though it's pathetic to use as a way to criticise and try to undermine.
I'm not trying to undermine anything.

In my opinion it's better to try and tackle issues that are causing inequalities today rather than spending time deciding what statue does or doesn't pass the 2020 test.

Brefugee · 11/06/2020 12:13

haven't read the thread but YABVU to use the words Virtue Signalling.
I fervently believe in equality and i don't care what people think when I say things like Black Lives Matter and go on marches.

There is a discussion to be had about our past and the statues and blackface are part of it. We know it is insulting to people to continue to glorify (with a statue) people like Edward Colston. Taking down that statue had given everyone more impetus to continue that discussion and hopefully this time there will be more listening on both sides.

hellena37 · 11/06/2020 12:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

FOJN · 11/06/2020 12:23

Interesting and thought provoking thread about the potential consequences of the current course of action, I do hope he's wrong.

mobile.twitter.com/KonstantinKisin/status/1270711803597615111

It will just make (largely white) councillors, politicians and leaders feel better. And that's what this is always about in the end.

So much of our politics is about this and about being "seen to do something" and some people genuinely seem satisfied even when no real change happens.

vulvachips · 11/06/2020 12:35

She also spoke about the racism she herself has experienced, including a cartoon depicting her as a cow with a ring through her nose. In the Guardian

This is one of the problems with the divisive media. I don't particularly like or agree with Priti however if I'm against racism it should be against it for all not just those who are not problematic.

MaMaLa321 · 11/06/2020 12:48

Kisin nails it FOJN
I also think this article is pretty accurate as well
unherd.com/2020/06/why-the-rich-are-revolting/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3

BovaryX · 11/06/2020 13:11

FOJN

I agree with both the perceptive thread you linked and MaMa's unherd article, particularly about the revolutionary zeal of some of the most privileged people on the planet. Who will be shielded from the consequences and any violence. The focus on statues is a symbolic attack on the UK's historical figures. To pretend that won't elicit a response is indicative of stupidity. Or mendacity.

vulvachips · 11/06/2020 13:23

@FOJN very depressing but I fear he's right. I have often made the point that it's ok to mention GFs past but it doesn't bear any relevance to the manner of how & why he was killed. By not mentioning it you give the far right ammunition.

MaMaLa321 · 11/06/2020 13:25

the funny thing is that, in Bristol, there is something very large and easily accessible dedicated to Colston (and I'm not talking about the Cathedral). The protesters are so culturally illiterate that they have no awareness of it. And I'm not going to be fool enough to say what it is.

vulvachips · 11/06/2020 13:27

@mama that is very interesting article.

the revolutionary zeal of some of the most privileged people on the planet. Who will be shielded from the consequences and any violence.

This is a very important point.

BovaryX · 11/06/2020 13:29

@MaMaLa321

You might find this interesting. I am not a fan of Manichean certainties. Or 0.0001 percent revolutionaries.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/in-defence-of-liberalism-resisting-a-new-era-of-intolerance

derxa · 11/06/2020 13:32

So much of our politics is about this and about being "seen to do something" and some people genuinely seem satisfied even when no real change happens. This is true in educational policy. Sometimes the best way for an education minister to proceed is to do nothing and let systems embed. But the revolving door of ministers who want to make their mark causes chaos. Similarly in the NHS. So many costly reorganisations.

BagpussAteMyHomework · 11/06/2020 13:33

historykitty what do you expect from Breitbart?

j712adrian · 11/06/2020 13:35

Protest is being largely conflated with politics - it’s a huge error.

Protest isn’t politics. Politics solves problems. Protest solves nothing.

This mistake has cost Labour three elections already. I’d like that to stop.

HistoryKitty · 11/06/2020 13:40

@BagpussAteMyHomework

historykitty what do you expect from Breitbart?
Sorry, got it from Twitter, it was trending on there.
BovaryX · 11/06/2020 13:40

In the US, Chris Palmer, NBA reporter, was enthusiastically tweeting support for burning and looting. Burn that sht down. Burn it all down.* But when this violent destruction came to his gated community? His enthusiasm evaporated.

Get these animals TF out of my neighborhood. Go back to where you live

Quite sickening.

uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/former-espn-nba-reporter-criticized-192748843.html