You're white you cannot experience racism 3

[PatricksRum]

And it continues. Thank you for those black people who took the time to share their stories once again.

@Whataloadofshite @BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup @CandyLeBonBon @WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee
Thank you all.

I am glad this thread is continuing. I’m white so not directly relevant to me although I have a mixed race child.
But it is relevant to you.
Not only because you should fight it but for your dc too.

Patrick’s Rum I think you have done a valuable thing and would respectfully disagree that this thread is not concerned with the experience of white people. I know we are not the target audience but I think it’s actually instructive for white people.
Thank you.
I disagree that you're not the target audience but what I mean is when posters have respinded with my dm got turned away from an afro hair salon. We do experience racism. That is not relevant to the thread.

[quote BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup]@callmeadoctor this is the third thread with this title so clearly MN don't agree with you.

And the good thing about the thread title - it is educating you.[/quote]
Just a tad patronising, Before? We are all entitled to our views. I have been polite, I just don't happen to agree with the Op s thread. I believe that I am entitled to say that. I will hand you a patronising "Have a good Day"

@thepeopleversuswork I just want to add, that if anything a lot of white people on this thread have done more work than me.
They've articulated when I've been too exhausted too.
They've explained when I'm not being listened to.

Oh right. I don't think its racist. Deliberately provocative but not racist.

Pp said my title and thread is racist and the police would treat it as so even if MN won't.

I think you misread the PP's post OP - they weren't suggesting that this thread should be reported to the police. They were suggesting that if a black person does something which discriminates against a white person, the police will treat it as a racist incident. It doesn't matter for those purposes that the white person has the societal advantages of being white.

Which again links up to my previous points, A) white people still want to be able to call anything that happens to them which is related to race "racist" and B) white people won't be content if they perceive black people as being able to get away with things that they are not.

You only have to look at the number of white people who think they should be allowed to use the N-word if black people can to know that white people won't accept a definition of racism that applies to their behaviour but not to black people's behaviour.

Of course the thread title isn’t racist. That’s one of the more ridiculous things I’ve read on Mumsnet.

I have carefully read this thread (didnt see the others) and don't agree with the OP. However I am off to drink a large glass of wine . Now that s a good idea...................................

Patricksrum I said thank you on thread 2 and I'll say it again now

These threads have taught me something ie that being 'colour blind' treating everyone alike is actually failing to acknowledge the disadvantage my black friends have due to racism and I need to do more

This thread and a previous one opened my eyes that we cannot say police brutality to black people is 'over there'. It's happening here too.
Someone posted a banner with their names and I knew so many of them but seeing them altogether like that was striking. How can anyone have forgotten Joy Garner suffocated with duct tape by immigration officers in front of her small child. How can anyone who remembers that deny we have a problem with racism in policing in the UK.

Thinking about this stuff is the precursor for action.
Actions I have taken so far
Messaged my friend to say that I am sorry I did not acknowledge how racism is affecting her right now and offered my support
Spoke to my teen daughter about George Floyds death and what it means
I already donate to The Innocence Project and have done for a long time. I will donate to other charities
I messaged the organisers of our education program at work about doing a session about Zero restraint and Seni's law

I think the title needed to be controversial to get people to listen
Mumsnet has been accused of 'dog whistle racism' for many years cf Meghan threads
It is absolutely right that they let these import threads stand.
The thread is still going because people want to talk about these issues.

I've seen so many of these type of threads go down over the years, and i think one danger of the struggle session approach is that you actually and inadventently harden your opposition.
Come on now. You can't accuse me or any other black person of continuing oppression against them by not watering their feelings down.

It's the reason I've ditched 'white privilege' as a term. Not because, in some senses, it doesn't exist, but because it isn't effective in communicating to people who aren't already in the choir.
But it is effective. Read @shreddednips post. And she's one of many.

I find it better to ignore the word 'privilege' altogether, and agree, say, that the life of a young white man struggling with schizophrenia and unemployment is bloody hard. It's just not his skin color that makes it hard. And for the young black man struggling with the same, he has an extra burden to carry.
That's great that's what you find useful.
I personally do not.
*
I think it's particularly icky for middle and upper class women to scream about white privilege to working class and poor people. They will look at you like you have two heads. Their lives are hard too. Really hard. Again, it's not that they possess some invisible privilege that makes their lives all sparkles and sunshine. Hard lives are hard lives. It's just that race isn't one of the hard things for them, and for poor or working class black families, it is.*
But their lives aren't hard because they are white. They're hard because they are poor.
That's the point.
You can be white and poor. You can be black and poor but you can't be poor and poor.

Some very patronising stuff about the OP getting some rest and sure she will feel better about racism afterwards. Also the occasional gentle reminder that it is whites who hold the power and if they don't like what she's saying, nothing will change.

@PanicOnTheStreets85 Apologies you're right.
As said up thread I'm knackered. That's twice I've done that now. Apologies to that poster to. Will ask MN to remove.

Also the occasional gentle reminder that it is whites who hold the power and if they don't like what she's saying, nothing will change.

It's true though, isn't it? Especially when such a large proportion of the population is white 🤷‍♀️

I have carefully read this thread (didnt see the others) and don't agree with the OP. However I am off to drink a large glass of wine . Now that s a good idea...................................
And there we have it

When a black person speaks not only do we not get listened to. We get ridiculed.

I don't need your sympathies OP...but thank you anyway 🤦🏽‍♀️

Bollocks. White people Get ridiculed too.

Also the occasional gentle reminder that it is whites who hold the power and if they don't like what she's saying, nothing will change.

It's true though, isn't it? Especially when such a large proportion of the population is white

You know there might be another option. And that is that as white people we do not make our stance against racism dependent on whether we like the language used by the OP, or the number of hours she spends posting about it, or how uncomfortable she makes us feel, but simply on what is RIGHT.

Now there's a revolutionary concept.

Some very patronising stuff about the OP getting some rest and sure she will feel better about racism afterwards.

Except I didn't say that.

Stop shit stirring.

I don’t think people care about their lives or the lives of their families if they are willing to gather in crowds.

Apologies you're right.

I don't think there's any need to apologise. It's easily done when there are so many posters responding to you and you are taking the time to address them.

Obama isn’t white.

janeskettle has posted the most sensible content so far.

PatricksRum the problem with these threads are you cannot actually debate very well so though although you has some really valid points to make you seem to frequently either misunderstand or alternatively choose to misinterpret what others are saying. Add to that the fact that you think that by starting a thread you somehow retain ownerrship of the content or that you are in charge of what people can and cannot post and a bunfight is inevitable. It's a public forum you cannot tell people that they are using the 'wrong' definition of racism or that x or y is irrelevant. All anyone is doing is posting their views from their perspective and in some cases using facts and data to back that up or dispute the views of others. You make massive generalisations and expect them to go unchallenged but then respond angrily if other posters do the same. You have spent 2 threads talking about how it isn't your job to help or educate people but at the same time you start this thread by doing exactly that, it is hard to understand what you are trying to communicate if you contradict yourself.

It was abundantly clear Worra wasn't saying that, and OP knew that in her response.
Absolutely shit stirring.

@janeskettle

To mn, I don't think the title is racist, but it's quite goady to keep this going over three threads, and struggle sessions are not quite the remit of Mumsnet, surely?

Some white people do experience racial prejudice ie travellers, but in the main, white people do not experience racism, and certainly do not experience systemic racism in the way people of colour do.

It's not complicated, and it doesn't need three threads to prosecute.

Thank you.

Why are MN allowing this, particularly when certain posters are encouraging posters to exclude posters from the AME communities? This is just goady and bullying and to exclude people on the grounds of race? Really? Is that in the spirit of the site?

*Patricksrum I said thank you on thread 2 and I'll say it again now

These threads have taught me something ie that being 'colour blind' treating everyone alike is actually failing to acknowledge the disadvantage my black friends have due to racism and I need to do mor*e

Thank YOU. Honestly.
This is what I'm hoping to achieve.
The reason I'm really grateful to you is not only because this has made you re-evaluate and stand up for BLM, by you doing that and listening and fighting my cause on these threads you are using your privilege in exactly the right way. You have built me up, and I mean that. The fact these threads remain has built me up to speak. I feel so much more powerful than I did at the beginning and that's down to posters like you.

I think the title needed to be controversial to get people to listen
100%. Newspaper headlines. It's how you grab attention. I'm not lying in my OP but I'm aware it will make people feel uncomfortable. It should. It has to make you feel uncomfortable so you act.

The thread title is a powerful statement and it works as a title. It wasn’t a question, but a statement and still centres the op. I know it was probably written quickly but it’s one of the more important threads on here.

As an aside other topics run into many many threads, they are for many reasons (silly, funny, nothing etc) but one provocative yet correct topic is asked to stop. Glad mn haven’t done that .